[Politics] Brexit

[Neville's Breakfast]

Then why did his poster feature refugees whose arrival or not in the UK has nothing to do with our membership of the EU?

Doesn't it ? Germany encouraged those refugees into the EU with an open door immigration policy. This was a unilateral action that has affected all neighbouring countries. Once this traffic of people gathered pace those countries had no choice but to allow them passage to Germany. This was a policy of unlimited immigration until quite recently and as fellow members of the EU these new German residents would some day become citizens and then be allowed free movement to the UK.
I am not particularly arguing for or against this as an outcome but to say it doesn't affect fellow EU members doesn't seem quite right.

 

[beorhthelm]

Or perhaps, just for once, Corbyn was smarter than his detractors think. Maybe he realised that, unlike the PLP who are almost universally Europhiles, vast swathes of Labour voters in Labour heartlands didn't share the Westminster bubble's blinkered view of a wonderful future ahead in the sunny uplands of the EU, and wanted to vote leave. The referendum results show that he may have been right on this occasion.
Not that I'm saying he's often right, mind!

reckon we're saying the same thing in a different way. Corbyn absolutely represents a segment of the party that is not europhile, many of the Unions are not fans and historically Labour is opposed to the core tenets of EU project. my point was in addressing how he could be "blamed" for the remain defeat, had he made an assertive stand on remaining he'd have pulled a few % of the vote that way. waverers and tribal voters, not those with established views on the matter. he didnt lead one way or the other, rather he voiced a mangled opinion, so couldnt even capitalise on being on the Leave side.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Doesn't it ? Germany encouraged those refugees into the EU with an open door immigration policy. This was a unilateral action that has affected all neighbouring countries. Once this traffic of people gathered pace those countries had no choice but to allow them passage to Germany. This was a policy of unlimited immigration until quite recently and as fellow members of the EU these new German residents would some day become citizens and then be allowed free movement to the UK.
I am not particularly arguing for or against this as an outcome but to say it doesn't affect fellow EU members doesn't seem quite right.

Yes, just as Mo Farah could move to France so a new German citizen could move to the UK. Germany's rules on citizenship are pretty strict however - generally you have to be resident in the country for 6-8 years, learn the language and stay out of trouble before you can apply. Farage was interested in none of this of course - his main concern was to stir up an auto-reaction to a photo of young men of 'foreign appearance' marching in our direction. No wonder even Gove said it made him shudder.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes, just as Mo Farah could move to France so a new German citizen could move to the UK. Germany's rules on citizenship are pretty strict however - generally you have to be resident in the country for 6-8 years, learn the language and stay out of trouble before you can apply. Farage was interested in none of this of course - his main concern was to stir up an auto-reaction to a photo of young men of 'foreign appearance' marching in our direction. No wonder even Gove said it made him shudder.

Of course you are right about Farage's motives. Also, particular examples like Mo Farah help your case.
However that one word 'unlimited' was the problem for the EU. It's quite an easy issue to solve by replacing with the word 'limited' but the EU is seemingly unable to do this..

 

[nicko31]

To all those who say it hasn't had a detrimental effect on the economy - well, we haven't actually left yet.

When we do, then expect more stories like this. We are definitely going to lose a lot of jobs in the science and medical sector. It's taken a long time for Britain to be at the forefront of scientific research. What a collossal f**k up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/17/eu-countries-rush-steal-uk-based-research-projects

4

Indeed many think there is nothing to worry about just because consumer confidence is holding up. If they want to keep Science the government is going to have to dig deep

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dc053af6-614e-11e6-8310-ecf0bddad227.html

Wait for the Autumn statement, we're gonna borrow sh1t loads

 

[pastafarian]

So what was the real message behind Farage's poster that [MENTION=12947]Lincoln Imp[/MENTION] referred to, please let us know how this was misinterpreted

The message I took certainly wasn’t " The Syrians are coming" like lincolnimp said it was.
That is as clear a misinterpretation or flippant misrepresentation of the message on the actual poster as you can get.
You only have to view the actual poster to see that.

 

[crookie]

In my view had there been any serious attempt by the EU to address concerns about levels of EU migration to the UK, maybe with some kind of temporary limit, Remain would have won easily, it is that simple

 

[studio150]

The message I took certainly wasn’t " The Syrians are coming" like lincolnimp said it was.
That is as clear a misinterpretation or flippant misrepresentation of the message on the actual poster as you can get.
You only have to view the actual poster to see that.

So in your view absolutely no truth in this Guardian article published at the time, which most people took to be the real message behind the poster

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The message I took certainly wasn’t " The Syrians are coming" like lincolnimp said it was.
That is as clear a misinterpretation or flippant misrepresentation of the message on the actual poster as you can get.
You only have to view the actual poster to see that.

I am not sure how much you know about advertising and PR but if you claim that me, Boris Johnson and the shuddering Michael Gove are all guilty of flippant misrepresentation then I can only marvel. The aim of the poster was clearly to frighten people into thinking that dusky hordes would be heading our way unless we voted Leave which is why both sides of the argument criticised it.

 

[Soulman]

Ihordes would be heading our way unless we voted Leave which is why both sides of the argument criticised it.

So if both sides criticised it then you could assume that many perspective Leave voters changed to Remain, seems the Leave majority would have been biggerwithout this poster.

 

[Soulman]

So in your view absolutely no truth in this Guardian article published at the time, which most people took to be the real message behind the poster

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants

Perhaps it was over the top, perhaps looking at what Merkel stated the other day about her mistake in letting in mass immigration, coupled with the troubles in Sweden (who are a lot further down the line than Germany) then perhaps a stark reminder and over the top scare tactic was needed.

Let's look at the latest re Sweden.

SWEDEN IN CHAOS: Number of ‘no-go zones’ INCREASED as police lose control over violence

SWEDISH police are losing the battle against increasing levels crime and violence in the country as now 55 areas have been labelled as "no-go" zones.


In February Express.co.uk reported the Scandinavian country has seen a huge surge in crime since the start of the migrants crisis in Europe with a rise in sex assaults, drug dealing and children carrying weapons.

The force’s increased lack of control in the country was revealed in a report by Sweden's National Criminal Investigation Service, where attacks on officers were detailed, including police cars being stoned by masked groups.

At the time around 50 areas were put on a "blacklist" which are then divided into three categories from "risk areas" to "seriously vulnerable

www.express.co.uk/news/world/713032/Sweden-chaos-no-go-zones-increased-police-lose-control

 

[Lincoln Imp]

So if both sides criticised it then you could assume that many perspective Leave voters changed to Remain, seems the Leave majority would have been biggerwithout this poster.

What?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Then why did his poster feature refugees whose arrival or not in the UK has nothing to do with our membership of the EU?

absolute tosh , people knew it was the truth hence adios the EU
regards
DR

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Perhaps it was over the top, perhaps looking at what Merkel stated the other day about her mistake in letting in mass immigration, coupled with the troubles in Sweden (who are a lot further down the line than Germany) then perhaps a stark reminder and over the top scare tactic was needed.

A million refugees is certainly a lot for one country to handle at short notice, especially when you consider that many British people apparently feel that the 4000 a year our nation is accepting from Syria is excessive. But there again, Germans seem to think differently to the English about refugees - whilst our immigrant numbers apparently contributed heavily to the result on June 23, Germany's burgeoning anti-immigration AfD still has less than one third the support that the pro-immigration parties have.

Immigration on the German level looks collosal to to my uneducated eye but what do I know - and just for the record Merkel has NOT said that it was a mistake per se to allow so many migrants in - she simply said that she wished Germany had been better prepared for them.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

absolute tosh , people knew it was the truth hence adios the EU
regards
DR

Blimey, you and that Pastafarian, what a couple of same-thinking dudes you are.

 

[yxee]

I am not sure how much you know about advertising and PR but if you claim that me, Boris Johnson and the shuddering Michael Gove are all guilty of flippant misrepresentation then I can only marvel. The aim of the poster was clearly to frighten people into thinking that dusky hordes would be heading our way unless we voted Leave which is why both sides of the argument criticised it.

Apart form your own slur (never hurts to throw in some casual racism when building a straw man), what part is not true?

There are thousands and thousands of migrants trying to enter the UK.

Wanting them not to come is a legitimate stance, despite the concerted and shameful effort to blur the line between border control and racism.

 

[Soulman]

Blimey, you and that Pastafarian, what a couple of same-thinking dudes you are.

Probably another 17 million plus same thinking dudes as well.

 

[pastafarian]

So in your view absolutely no truth in this Guardian article published at the time, which most people took to be the real message behind the poster

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants

Correct. No truth to it
I don’t think the poster incites racial hatred or breaches UK race laws like the bloke from Unison is claiming in his written complaint to the police.

 

[nicko31]

Perhaps it was over the top, perhaps looking at what Merkel stated the other day about her mistake in letting in mass immigration, coupled with the troubles in Sweden (who are a lot further down the line than Germany) then perhaps a stark reminder and over the top scare tactic was needed.

Let's look at the latest re Sweden.

SWEDEN IN CHAOS: Number of ‘no-go zones’ INCREASED as police lose control over violence

SWEDISH police are losing the battle against increasing levels crime and violence in the country as now 55 areas have been labelled as "no-go" zones.


In February Express.co.uk reported the Scandinavian country has seen a huge surge in crime since the start of the migrants crisis in Europe with a rise in sex assaults, drug dealing and children carrying weapons.

The force’s increased lack of control in the country was revealed in a report by Sweden's National Criminal Investigation Service, where attacks on officers were detailed, including police cars being stoned by masked groups.

At the time around 50 areas were put on a "blacklist" which are then divided into three categories from "risk areas" to "seriously vulnerable

www.express.co.uk/news/world/713032/Sweden-chaos-no-go-zones-increased-police-lose-control

The comments section in the Express to me is far more disturbing the article who is the usual tabloid fill you'd expect. Some pretty vile individuals out there, write that stuff on here and you'd be banned.

 

[Soulman]

The comments section in the Express to me is far more disturbing the article who is the usual tabloid fill you'd expect. Some pretty vile individuals out there, write that stuff on here and you'd be banned.

I read the article, never looked at the comments section.