[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

I was talking to a friend in Burgess Hill over the weekend. She had voted Remain but told me that most of her family had voted Leave. "It's them immigrants" was what I was told. Knowing her family, I doubt that many of them have ever really met an EU immigrant. I sometimes wonder how many Leave voters in Burgess Hill, or on here, have actually had their lives affected by EU immigrants. Some people have for sure and with a Lincolnshire background I know where there are problems. But generally? A lot of it, I guess, is papertalk - the Express used 'migrants' in its front page lead headline 35 times in the build up to the referendum. Old-fashioned word perhaps, but it makes me ashamed. (And Nigel's poster? Even Gove said it made him shudder.)

What does not seem to sink in is that most Leave voters do not have a problem with EU immigrants, i work/have worked with thousands over the years, no problem.
The problem is that we have uncontrolled immigration, 330000 a year is crazy. Many have been worried, aired their concerns, have told the MP's, who have not listened.
The shackles of the EU, the laws etc, many are/were fed up, not listened to, voted out.
So easy to just say ""It's them immigrants" , which obviously will get the usual response, much better to say that many just want CONTROLLED immigration and the chance to govern ourselves, trade with who we want, adhere to our own laws.....and stop putting money into an un elected decision making club, in which a few are teetering financially and will soon have to be bailed out......in my opinion.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Just to name two:

The Miners Strike
Poll Tax

Ok but we dont live in the seventies anymore, the miners were hoping thry could forver. The poll tax was a wrong for sure

 

[beorhthelm]

What did the nasty party inner sanctum have on Leadsom?

they had a recording of her making snidy comments denigrating anyone who doesnt have children.

you dont need to look for a conspiracy, her own comments and "mis-quoted" claim of a clear question and answer in an on-the-record interview, sank her as a credible leader.

 

[pastafarian]

I see the Government has just soent £3bn on 9 marine patrol planes to ensure our borders are save post the EU. And so it starts

whats started?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

What does not seem to sink in is that most Leave voters do not have a problem with EU immigrants, i work/have worked with thousands over the years, no problem.
The problem is that we have uncontrolled immigration, 330000 a year is crazy. Many have been worried, aired their concerns, have told the MP's, who have not listened.
The shackles of the EU, the laws etc, many are/were fed up, not listened to, voted out.
So easy to just say ""It's them immigrants" , which obviously will get the usual response, much better to say that many just want CONTROLLED immigration and the chance to govern ourselves, trade with who we want, adhere to our own laws.....and stop putting money into an un elected decision making club, in which a few are teetering financially and will soon have to be bailed out......in my opinion.

If most Leave voters don't have a problem with EU immigrants as you say why did the issue of EU immigration apparently constitute a major consideration in their decision to vote the way they did? Relying on anecdotal information can be hazardous but almost every leaver I have spoken to has cited 'immigration' as the main reason for them voting Out. Not one of them has said to me that they voted out because of EU laws.

In one sense I think you are absolutely right. Most Leave voters DON'T have a problem with EU immigration. It simply doesn't effect them. The reason so many give this issue as a reason for voting out is the propaganda from the Leave side. I suspect you will disagree for the very laudable reason that you don't subscribe to this propaganda yourself but to me it is undeniable that the tone of so much of the Leave immigration output was just horrible. Farage's Syria poster and the nonstop migrant bashing of the tabloids was the tip of a nasty iceberg and that just makes me ashamed. For me, right now, England is just a place I live in.

Incidentally, you mention in the same sentence 'uncontrolled migration' and 330,000 immigrants a year but as you have acknowledged yourself in the past over half of that figure arises from immigration over which we DO have control.

 

[GT49er]

So do you choose which people stand as a Conservative or a Labour candidate in your constituency?

No I don't. Do you?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I see the Government has just soent £3bn on 9 marine patrol planes to ensure our borders are save post the EU. And so it starts

The Ministry of Defence said the P-8A Poseidon planes will be based at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray to help protect the Trident nuclear weapons system and the UK's two new aircraft carriers.

The collaboration between the UK and Boeing, announced on the opening day of the Farnborough International Airshow in Hampshire, is expected to create 2,000 jobs - doubling the US giant's UK workforce.

A new £100 million support and training base for the P-8A planes will be built at RAF Lossiemouth.

Boeing said it will make the UK its European base for training, maintenance, repair and overhaul across its defence fixed-wing and rotary platforms.

A further £365 million worth of aerospace research and development projects have been approved to boost the UK's position in the sector.

Blimey your even trying to turn this good news story into a negative .... 2000 new jobs, so it starts.

 

[5ways]

The Ministry of Defence said the P-8A Poseidon planes will be based at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray to help protect the Trident nuclear weapons system and the UK's two new aircraft carriers.

The collaboration between the UK and Boeing, announced on the opening day of the Farnborough International Airshow in Hampshire, is expected to create 2,000 jobs - doubling the US giant's UK workforce.

A new £100 million support and training base for the P-8A planes will be built at RAF Lossiemouth.

Boeing said it will make the UK its European base for training, maintenance, repair and overhaul across its defence fixed-wing and rotary platforms.

A further £365 million worth of aerospace research and development projects have been approved to boost the UK's position in the sector.

Blimey your even trying to turn this good news story into a negative .... 2000 new jobs, so it starts.

If you cared about jobs you wouldn't have voted for Brexit

 

[JC Footy Genius]

If you cared about jobs you wouldn't have voted for Brexit

Time to let it go and move on.

 

[GT49er]

Why?

Geez!

 

[Baldseagull]

No I don't. Do you?

No, no I don't.

 

[GT49er]

No, no I don't.

.........is the right answer.

 

[pastafarian]

If most Leave voters don't have a problem with EU immigrants as you say why did the issue of EU immigration apparently constitute a major consideration in their decision to vote the way they did? Relying on anecdotal information can be hazardous but almost every leaver I have spoken to has cited 'immigration' as the main reason for them voting Out. Not one of them has said to me that they voted out because of EU laws.

In one sense I think you are absolutely right. Most Leave voters DON'T have a problem with EU immigration. It simply doesn't effect them. The reason so many give this issue as a reason for voting out is the propaganda from the Leave side. I suspect you will disagree for the very laudable reason that you don't subscribe to this propaganda yourself but to me it is undeniable that the tone of so much of the Leave immigration output was just horrible. Farage's Syria poster and the nonstop migrant bashing of the tabloids was the tip of a nasty iceberg and that just makes me ashamed. For me, right now, England is just a place I live in.

Incidentally, you mention in the same sentence 'uncontrolled migration' and 330,000 immigrants a year but as you have acknowledged yourself in the past over half of that figure arises from immigration over which we DO have control.

what?
You seem to have confused yourself

"If most Leave voters don't have a problem with EU immigrants as you say why did the issue of EU immigration apparently constitute a major consideration"
"but almost every leaver I have spoken to has cited 'immigration' as the main reason for them voting Out."
"In one sense I think you are absolutely right. Most Leave voters DON'T have a problem with EU immigration"

in one breath you are saying almost everyone you speak to says immigration is an issue, then in the next you are saying most leavers DONT have an issue with immigration.
which one is it?

Its entirely reasonable to NOT have an issue with immigrants(themselves) but have concerns about the issue of immigration itself,

 

[Baldseagull]

.........is the right answer.

Yeah, but what a crap debate when you avoid the conclusion.

 

[Soulman]

If most Leave voters don't have a problem with EU immigrants as you say why did the issue of EU immigration apparently constitute a major consideration in their decision to vote the way they did? Relying on anecdotal information can be hazardous but almost every leaver I have spoken to has cited 'immigration' as the main reason for them voting Out. Not one of them has said to me that they voted out because of EU laws.

In one sense I think you are absolutely right. Most Leave voters DON'T have a problem with EU immigration. It simply doesn't effect them. The reason so many give this issue as a reason for voting out is the propaganda from the Leave side. I suspect you will disagree for the very laudable reason that you don't subscribe to this propaganda yourself but to me it is undeniable that the tone of so much of the Leave immigration output was just horrible. Farage's Syria poster and the nonstop migrant bashing of the tabloids was the tip of a nasty iceberg and that just makes me ashamed. For me, right now, England is just a place I live in.

Incidentally, you mention in the same sentence 'uncontrolled migration' and 330,000 immigrants a year but as you have acknowledged yourself in the past over half of that figure arises from immigration over which we DO have control.

Perhaps read my reply to your post. As stated, no problem with EU immigrants, the UN CONTROLLED, the amount is the problem and why as you stated, (although not in the post of yours I was replying to which implied the problem was with immigrants ) that immigration was high on the list of reasons for voting Leave.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

If most Leave voters don't have a problem with EU immigrants as you say why did the issue of EU immigration apparently constitute a major consideration in their decision to vote the way they did? Relying on anecdotal information can be hazardous but almost every leaver I have spoken to has cited 'immigration' as the main reason for them voting Out. Not one of them has said to me that they voted out because of EU laws.

In one sense I think you are absolutely right. Most Leave voters DON'T have a problem with EU immigration. It simply doesn't effect them. The reason so many give this issue as a reason for voting out is the propaganda from the Leave side. I suspect you will disagree for the very laudable reason that you don't subscribe to this propaganda yourself but to me it is undeniable that the tone of so much of the Leave immigration output was just horrible. Farage's Syria poster and the nonstop migrant bashing of the tabloids was the tip of a nasty iceberg and that just makes me ashamed. For me, right now, England is just a place I live in.

Incidentally, you mention in the same sentence 'uncontrolled migration' and 330,000 immigrants a year but as you have acknowledged yourself in the past over half of that figure arises from immigration over which we DO have control.

Living in Luton for 10 years, I saw good migration and I also saw bad migration. I also saw Religion coming out in a way that I found completely opposite to what this country stands for. What I disagree on was being labelled an xenophobe and islmaphobe for expressing concern, when I could see clearly with my own eyes what was going wrong.

Part of it has to do with EU, part of it doesn't, and other parts of it are to do with people not integrating properly in this country.
I have a experience of where I can say it has gone wrong and it left me with the feeling whether I was living in my own country anymore.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

If you cared about jobs you wouldn't have voted for Brexit

You just can't bear when good news happens to our country.

Meanwhile in the moribund economies of the eurozone:

Italy 'facing 20 years of economic woe' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36770311

 

[Soulman]

You just can't bear when good news happens to our country.

Meanwhile in the moribund economies of the eurozone:

Italy 'facing 20 years of economic woe' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36770311

I believe Farage predicted that Italy would be back for more cash from the EU in October. Sounds about right.

 

[Baldseagull]

You just can't bear when good news happens to our country.

Meanwhile in the moribund economies of the eurozone:

Italy 'facing 20 years of economic woe' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36770311

Well as long as were all right eh?
I hope none of you leave buggers complain about the rich lining their own pockets, not paying enough tax etc. in the coming months and years.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

what?
You seem to have confused yourself

"If most Leave voters don't have a problem with EU immigrants as you say why did the issue of EU immigration apparently constitute a major consideration"
"but almost every leaver I have spoken to has cited 'immigration' as the main reason for them voting Out."
"In one sense I think you are absolutely right. Most Leave voters DON'T have a problem with EU immigration"

in one breath you are saying almost everyone you speak to says immigration is an issue, then in the next you are saying most leavers DONT have an issue with immigration.
which one is it?

Its entirely reasonable to NOT have an issue with immigrants(themselves) but have concerns about the issue of immigration itself,

You were in such a hurry to reply that you didn't really read my post (not that I blame you for that).

My point was that whilst many leavers cite Immigration as being the main reason they voted as they did, they don't in fact have immigration problems themselves. You say virtually the same in your final sentence.

So why do people cite EU immigration as a serious problem for the nation when they hardly ever meet an EU immigrant themselves?

Your explanation seems to be that people in Brighton for example have a deep concern for the social pressures caused by EU immigrants in certain towns across the country (such as Boston and Spalding and, much bigger, Peterborough).

It would be nice if this was true but in a world where most people seem unconcerned about what happens to people in the next street it just isn't plausible. The more likely cause for them voting as they did was the endless ramping of anti-immigrant vitriol in the tabloids, UKIP's publicity techniques and the mainstream Brexit stuff about Turkey being on the brink of joining the EU.

We can leave others to judge which is the more likely, but can I make clear I am not saying that people who were swayed by the nasty stuff are racists.