[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

Or importantly in the case of Brexit, making predictions to suit their political paymasters.

This.

Unfair - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...K-LITTLEWOOD-calls-end-Brexit-blame-game.html

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just watching the BBC news where Trump has announced bans on certain peoples from entry into the USA what a sweeping statement daming whole nations meanwhile in Turkey has used the resent turmoil to unleash a terrable round of arrests and sackings of thousands of individuals many of whom will never be seen again.

Meanwhile our Priminister is activley aligning us with these two Worrying times

She's desperate. She needs a deal, any deal, to make Brexit look a success. Hence she's holding hands with Trump whilst the rest of the world (Putin aside) keeps him at arm's length.

We'll soon see how special the relationship is once Trump's met Putin.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Yes but there is a time and a place yesterday Mrs May was standing shoulder to shoulder with a man who then bans every single person from a number of countries and on Holacaust day and today Mrs May is discussing trade with a man who is riding rough shot over his own citizens.

It's all very poor timing and goes to show how Brexit is driving everything including the nations mortality

On the plus side May and Trump seem less inclined to militarily export a policy of 'progressive, liberal intervetionism' on other nations which is probably good for their mortality rates and our morality.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

On the plus side May and Trump seem less inclined to militarily export a policy of 'progressive, liberal intervetionism' on other nations which is probably good for their mortality rates and our morality.

Your posts always seem thoughtful and honest but it must be increasingly difficult to put a positive spin on this. We have people with green cards that were travelling overseas but cannot get back into the US and May won't condemn it. We are openly supporting a regime that has removed 120,000 from their jobs and imprisoned many of them without any due process. Never in my life have we plumbed these depths and our reputation as a bastion of values like freedom and stability is under threat. This is not a leave/remain debate anymore; it is much more fundamental than that.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Your posts always seem thoughtful and honest but it must be increasingly difficult to put a positive spin on this. We have people with green cards that were travelling overseas but cannot get back into the US and May won't condemn it. We are openly supporting a regime that has removed 120,000 from their jobs and imprisoned many of them without any due process. Never in my life have we plumbed these depths and our reputation as a bastion of values like freedom and stability is under threat. This is not a leave/remain debate anymore; it is much more fundamental than that.

We were led to believe that Brexit was going to be this new golden and glittering era of being in the boss-seat and picking and choosing what and who to do business with. Are Trump and that human rights horror from Turkey really the first choices and the pick of the pile?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Your posts always seem thoughtful and honest but it must be increasingly difficult to put a positive spin on this. We have people with green cards that were travelling overseas but cannot get back into the US and May won't condemn it. We are openly supporting a regime that has removed 120,000 from their jobs and imprisoned many of them without any due process. Never in my life have we plumbed these depths and our reputation as a bastion of values like freedom and stability is under threat. This is not a leave/remain debate anymore; it is much more fundamental than that.

Thankyou. I wasn't attempting spin, more trying to point out that both leaders seem far less likely to enact an aggresive military interventionist foreign policy. On the dealing/trading with unpleasnt oppresive regimes .. no change there then.

As much as some of us dislike many of his actions he is at least following through on his election pledges at the earliest opportunity .. which is quite a novel concept for our political class.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

We were led to believe that Brexit was going to be this new golden and glittering era of being in the boss-seat and picking and choosing what and who to do business with. Are Trump and that human rights horror from Turkey really the first choices and the pick of the pile?

Would that be the'human rights horror' that the EU is throwing billions of Euros at to make the migrant crisis go away?

 

[GT49er]

Your posts always seem thoughtful and honest but it must be increasingly difficult to put a positive spin on this. We have people with green cards that were travelling overseas but cannot get back into the US and May won't condemn it. We are openly supporting a regime that has removed 120,000 from their jobs and imprisoned many of them without any due process. Never in my life have we plumbed these depths and our reputation as a bastion of values like freedom and stability is under threat. This is not a leave/remain debate anymore; it is much more fundamental than that.

Or, for the sake of balance, had things gone differently last summer, we could be looking at the spectre of slimy Call-Me-Dave rushing across the Atlantic to suck up to Trump. Would that vomit-inducing spectacle look any better?

 

[portslade seagull]

For God's sake don't fall in.Probably only a staff writer anyway.UTA

Not sure it even existed.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Or, for the sake of balance, had things gone differently last summer, we could be looking at the spectre of slimy Call-Me-Dave rushing across the Atlantic to suck up to Trump. Would that vomit-inducing spectacle look any better?

This thread would not exist and all would be forgotten,and everybody would live happily after,we would of course have been unhappy with the result,we would of course but democracy would have been respected.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Would that be the'human rights horror' that the EU is throwing billions of Euros at to make the migrant crisis go away?

The migrant crisis involves a lot of countries, and will take a lot of countries, to resolve....Turkey being one of them. The EU taking a lead and dealing with him to resolve a humanitarian issue is very different to cosying up for business which is totally unnecessary given the new golden and glittering array of options from all around the world.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Or, for the sake of balance, had things gone differently last summer, we could be looking at the spectre of slimy Call-Me-Dave rushing across the Atlantic to suck up to Trump. Would that vomit-inducing spectacle look any better?

I loathed Cameron but in the scenario you describe our smell of desperation wouldn't have been so strong and I am pretty sure that we wouldn't have been forced to grovel to Erdogan afterwards. We are alone in waters that have become increasingly shark-infested. I have to say that I have moved beyond point scoring and am genuinely scared.

 

[GT49er]

This thread would not exist and all would be forgotten,and everybody would live happily after,we would of course have been unhappy with the result,we would of course but democracy would have been respected.

Oh, thank f<(k - my nightmare vision of Cameron scurrying off to mate with Trump was just that, a nightmare, then!

 

[GT49er]

I loathed Cameron but in the scenario you describe our smell of desperation wouldn't have been so strong and I am pretty sure that we wouldn't have been forced to grovel to Erdogan afterwards. We are alone in waters that have become increasingly shark-infested. I have to say that I have moved beyond point scoring and am genuinely scared.

No, we would have been forced to go along with fast-tracking Erdogan into the EU. Sorry you are scared, but I feel more positive and hopeful about the future than I have for a long time now that we've decided to free ourselves from the EU.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The migrant crisis involves a lot of countries, and will take a lot of countries, to resolve....Turkey being one of them. The EU taking a lead and dealing with him to resolve a humanitarian issue is very different to cosying up for business which is totally unnecessary given the new golden and glittering array of options from all around the world.

So it's ok for the EU to continue to throw Billions of EU citizens (our) tax payers money at the( Human rights horror) Turkey as an accession country or to try and stop the flow of migrants but not OK for the UK to try and strike trade deals with them.

Resolving a humanitarian crisis by putting hundreds of thousand of vulnerable refugees in the hands of the Turkish (Human rights horror) regime?

Also far from resolved as Turkey are threatening to turn the migrant tap back on if more money/concessions are not forthcoming.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So it's ok for the EU to continue to throw Billions of EU citizens (our) tax payers money at the( Human rights horror) Turkey as an accession country or to try and stop the flow of migrants but not OK for the UK to try and strike trade deals with them.

Resolving a humanitarian crisis by putting hundreds of thousand of vulnerable refugees in the hands of the Turkish (Human rights horror) regime?

Also far from resolved as Turkey are threatening to turn the migrant tap back on if more money/concessions are not forthcoming.

In short yes. It's a incredibly difficult situation and the best of a bad situation. If I could see a more preferable resolution of course I'd take it. And doing nothing isn't an option. This is completely different to striking trade deals especially when there are numerous other nations queuing up to do deals in this glittering and golden new era.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

In short yes. It's a incredibly difficult situation and the best of a bad situation. If I could see a more preferable resolution of course I'd take it. And doing nothing isn't an option. This is completely different to striking trade deals especially when there are numerous other nations queuing up to do deals in this glittering and golden new era.

Yes, an incredibly difficult situation not helped by Merkel of course. A best option that still meant last year more refugees/migrants drowned in the med than ever before and hundreds of thousands of migrants are better off under Turkish authority than EU jurisdiction.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

No, we would have been forced to go along with fast-tracking Erdogan into the EU. Sorry you are scared, but I feel more positive and hopeful about the future than I have for a long time now that we've decided to free ourselves from the EU.

I am not sure that there is any evidence to support the view that Erdogan is being fast tracked into the EU, certainly not after last year's events. As far as our future goes outside the EU goes, I hope you are right.

 

[vegster]

No, we would have been forced to go along with fast-tracking Erdogan into the EU. Sorry you are scared, but I feel more positive and hopeful about the future than I have for a long time now that we've decided to free ourselves from the EU.

Can you tell me exactly what freedom this is ? And, will this freedom genuinely make our life better ? bear in mind you will still have to pay your taxes,have a driving license,conform to many health and safety rules etc etc . What is personally going to happen to you on the sacred day ? And, what happens when we leave and your life is the same ? what are you going to blame then ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes, an incredibly difficult situation not helped by Merkel of course. A best option that still meant last year more refugees/migrants drowned in the med than ever before and hundreds of thousands of migrants are better off under Turkish authority than EU jurisdiction.

So you agree it's the best option? if not, what would you have done?