Breaking the bank for a player would have been better than this.

[London Irish]

Yeah if? But what if a russian millionaire came in and bought us a load of prem players. This is another if. The trouble is we can't rely on ifs. I'm not going to assign blame because I think the whole club has done really well to just be in the position we are but the point is we cannot dismiss getting points at anytime of the season in our position.

But I don't "dismiss it". Where have I ever said that I didn't want us to win games early in the season?! :thud:

What I've said is that in the scenario of where early season defeats happen, all is not lost as you have the opportunity and the games left to turn things around! As the Wendsy proved. It's a simple enough point really!

 

[London Irish]

But one of the things that has cost us this year was our inability to convert all those early season draws into wins. If say of 4 of those draws had been wins we would still be in with a shout.

Yes, it would have been great to have done that. But even then we had the opportunity to beat Millwall at home, to hang on at St Mary's rather than lose to a late goal, to not concede that remarkable Eagles goal against Watford, to not collapse defensively against Crewe and Leicester, for Hendo not to make that mistake against Plymouth, for us to have made a better fist of our games against Southampton and the Wendys, etc, etc.

Even after all those draws you talk about, we still had plenty of opportunities to seal survival. We are down because we did not take enough of them.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Yes, it would have been great to have done that. But even then we had the opportunity to beat Millwall at home, to hang on at St Mary's rather than lose to a late goal, to not concede that remarkable Eagles goal against Watford, to not collapse defensively against Crewe and Leicester, for Hendo not to make that mistake against Plymouth, for us to have made a better fist of our games against Southampton and the Wendys, etc, etc.

Even after all those draws you talk about, we still had plenty of opportunities to seal survival. We are down because we did not take enough of them.

But the fact we did not take enough points meant that games later on became more high pressured.

You have to view every game as an opportunity to get positive results, yet McGhee publicly did not always do that this season.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If you have no resources to strengthen your squad then you cannot expect to take many end-of-season points.

I can tell you precisely the point at which I thought we were doomed - Midnight on 1st February 2006, after the transfer window shut.

Not to have strengthened the squad sent a signal out to the players, the fans and other sides down the bottom that we were f***ed.

After that date I've felt relegation was just a matter of when, not if. It is obvious where our deficiencies lie, and the fact we are down with 2 games still to go and 10 points adrift tells its own story of this sorry season. We deserve to go down because we, Crewe and Millwall have been clearly the worst 3 teams over the season.

 

[Les Biehn]

But I don't "dismiss it". Where have I ever said that I didn't want us to win games early in the season?! :thud:

What I've said is that in the scenario of where early season defeats happen, all is not lost as you have the opportunity and the games left to turn things around! As the Wendsy proved. It's a simple enough point really!

I know what your point is I was refuting it by saying that we are not Wednesday and don't have their money and stadium to aid us in correcting our situation. Quite a simple enough point really. :thud:

Dismiss may be the wrong word but you did say that these results weren't important yes?

 

[Easy 10]

If you have no resources to strengthen your squad then you cannot expect to take many end-of-season points.

I can tell you precisely the point at which I thought we were doomed - Midnight on 1st February 2006, after the transfer window shut.

Not to have strengthened the squad sent a signal out to the players, the fans and other sides down the bottom that we were f***ed.

After that date I've felt relegation was just a matter of when, not if. It is obvious where our deficiencies lie, and the fact we are down with 2 games still to go and 10 points adrift tells its own story of this sorry season. We deserve to go down because we, Crewe and Millwall have been clearly the worst 3 teams over the season.

I've read that twice now, and cannot find a thing to argue with.
Spot on.

 

[London Irish]

The problem is you implied that when we were only drawing at the beginning of the season that this was not really a problem as these games were less important as the manager was still finding the best team etc.

I stand 100 per cent behind all those comments you copied and pasted. It's always a problem to lose games at any time of the season, but early in the season there will be ample opportunities to sort that out. Opportunities that were taken by other teams, and not us alas.

I've harped on about Sheff Wednesdays but the point also stands for numerous other teams this season, the likes of Plymouth, Leicester, Derby, Norwich, Burnley, Hull and Coventry all made about as poor a start to the season as us, none of these teams were more than a couple of points clear of us by October but all of them were able to push on after very indifferent starts to the season.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I stand 100 per cent behind all those comments you copied and pasted. It's always a problem to lose games at any time of the season, but early in the season there will be ample opportunities to sort that out. Opportunities that were taken by other teams, and not us alas.

I've harped on about Sheff Wednesdays but the point also stands for numerous other teams this season, the likes of Plymouth, Leicester, Derby, Norwich, Burnley, Hull and Coventry all made about as poor a start to the season as us, none of these teams were more than a couple of points clear of us by October but all of them were able to push on after very indifferent starts to the season.

But Steve, by the beginning of the season a manager should more or less know his best side and tactics, he should not still be overly experitmenting, that is what pre-season is for (could use the thud smiley now).

 

[Les Biehn]

I stand 100 per cent behind all those comments you copied and pasted. It's always a problem to lose games at any time of the season, but early in the season there will be ample opportunities to sort that out.

A good point if you are one of the teams below but we don't have their resources so unfortunately when injuries hit or players become tired we can't buy new players very easily, so our situation is totally different to theirs. Like you I am sorry to keep harping on about the same point but you still don't seem to have addressed it.

I've harped on about Sheff Wednesdays but the point also stands for numerous other teams this season, the likes of Plymouth, Leicester, Derby, Norwich, Burnley, Hull and Coventry all made about as poor a start to the season as us, none of these teams were more than a couple of points clear of us by October but all of them were able to push on after very indifferent starts to the season.

 

[Parson Henry]

I've read that twice now, and cannot find a thing to argue with.
Spot on.

I usually read things 4 or 5 times before I make such rash statements.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Thank you Easy. There is no point denying the truth, we have struggled all season, this being a mere continuation of last season.

Key players like Hammond, Carpenter and Butters ran out of gas long before Saturday, and who can blame them?

I'd argue that the players brought in to freshen things up have not contributed sufficiently to the cause. McGhee cannot attract quality and so is gambling, and the big gambles he's taken like Turi and CKR have failed.

I'm slightly worried about McGhee's negative comments re the money and not being able to afford GN-W. I'd prefer comments along the lines of "pressure now off the players, they can go out and play last 2 matches, get a good summer's rest and I'm really optimistic we can challenge for the League One title."

My feeling is that McGhee has burnt himself out and is not the man to take us up again. It's pointless talking about the financial situation or Falmer because it's not in his control, he needs to do what Mickey Adams did and just get on with it.

We need new energy and belief, the sort of Phil Parkinson-type figure that can lift a no-mark club into a promotion position.

 

[Parson Henry]

Now I only need to read that once to agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Les Biehn]

But Steve, by the beginning of the season a manager should more or less know his best side and tactics, he should not still be overly experitmenting, that is what pre-season is for (could use the thud smiley now).

This is a good point, pre-season allows you to settle in your best side so you can at least plan you team, tactics etc.. to some extent before the season starts. However injuries, poor form and which players will tire more easily during the season is less easy to legislate for.

 

[Uncle Buck]

This is a good point, pre-season allows you to settle in your best side so you can at least plan you team, tactics etc.. to some extent before the season starts. However injuries, poor form and which players will tire more easily during the season is less easy to legislate for.

Those are all factors, but ultimately you should not be experimenting all that much once the competitive games start.

 

[London Irish]

Dismiss may be the wrong word but you did say that these results weren't important yes?

No I didn't - that's a mischeivous misquote. Have a good look through that stuff Bucky has copied and pasted and see if you can see where I said defeats weren't important.

What I did was make a comparision between a defeat like, say, Reading second game up early season, and the kind of defeats we have suffered in the past few weeks against Southampton and the Wendsy. These defeats were more important because back at the beginning of the season we had the opportunity to turn things round - as a host of other teams this season did with similar early season records to us. With our recent defeats, we had no such opportunity, so these defeats were more terminal, and hence more crucial.

 

[Easy 10]

I usually read things 4 or 5 times before I make such rash statements.

I have become somewhat slapdash lately, I must admit.

 

[Parson Henry]

I have become somewhat slapdash lately, I must admit.

Easy..you have time to improve..there is some way to go before the obese female sings. I back you to sort it out!!!

 

[Pavilionaire]

We were never going to do much pre-season because the spine of the team had completely changed. It's more important what happens on the training ground once the new signings have arrived than a match against Bognor or Lewes.

My big hope for this summer is that we don't fanny around until the end of July to bring players in (as usually happens) - let's get it sorted by mid-July when all the players are back to pre-season and build the team spirit straight away so that we get some good early results to create momentum.

 

[Uncle Buck]

No I didn't - that's a mischeivous misquote. Have a good look through that stuff Bucky has copied and pasted and see if you can see where I said defeats weren't important.

What I did was make a comparision between a defeat like, say, Reading second game up early season, and the kind of defeats we have suffered in the past few weeks against Southampton and the Wendsy. These defeats were more important because back at the beginning of the season we had the opportunity to turn things round - as a host of other teams this season did with similar early season records to us. With our recent defeats, we had no such opportunity, so these defeats were more terminal, and hence more crucial.

To an extent you are correct, but by not doing enough in those early season games, it meant that the ones latter on were more pressurised than they needed to be and ultimately we cracked under that pressure (well amongst other factors).

(I see it is Bucky now, more smileys please).

 

[London Irish]

Thank you Easy. There is no point denying the truth, we have struggled all season, this being a mere continuation of last season.

Key players like Hammond, Carpenter and Butters ran out of gas long before Saturday, and who can blame them?

I'd argue that the players brought in to freshen things up have not contributed sufficiently to the cause. McGhee cannot attract quality and so is gambling, and the big gambles he's taken like Turi and CKR have failed.

I'm slightly worried about McGhee's negative comments re the money and not being able to afford GN-W. I'd prefer comments along the lines of "pressure now off the players, they can go out and play last 2 matches, get a good summer's rest and I'm really optimistic we can challenge for the League One title."

My feeling is that McGhee has burnt himself out and is not the man to take us up again. It's pointless talking about the financial situation or Falmer because it's not in his control, he needs to do what Mickey Adams did and just get on with it.

We need new energy and belief, the sort of Phil Parkinson-type figure that can lift a no-mark club into a promotion position.

So McGhee levels with the fans about our realistic prospects of signing GNW. And you deduce from that he is "burnt out"? What chance does McGhee have of a fair shake from fans like you who are so jaundiced towards him?

What would you have McGhee do when the Argus ask him about the likelihood of signing GNW? Lie? Say we do have the money to sign him? How long would you have him lie for, until GNW put pen to paper for another club? I guess McGhee could get away with it for a couple of months