Breaking News: French Plane Disappears

[strings]

Did you PASS the course? It seems odd to me, as a layman, that the HEAVIER one glides FURTHER....

Heavier aircraft = greater airspeed.

Basically both aircraft are falling from the sky, and they will both need to have the same airspeed over their wings to remain airbourne (assuming they are identical in all but weight). However, in order to get the speed needed to fly, a lighter aircraft will have top make a steeper dive. A heavier aircraft won't - I think that is correct(?) - this is a mixture of A-Level Physics and my time doing a gliding scholarship at Southdown Gliding Club when I was 16.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

With regard to the timing/location thing, aircraft flying transatlantic don't just go in a straight line from A to B, however logical that may seem. If you fly from New York to London a typical route would be sort of up and over (to use the technical term ), roughly passing Iceland and Greenland on the way. I'd imagine Brazil is similar, perhaps they fly along the coast when coming back to Europe. It's a bloody big country, so I can easily see how it wouldn't be that far away from the coast even after a few hours.

With regard to aircraft in general, no need to panic. They have a number of aircraft incidents a week at Gatwick alone, where flights turn around or are diverted because of some on-board technical problem. Happens fairly regularly: none crashed yet. Just one for you nervous flyers out there

(I'm working tomorrow: good job I don't believe in the kiss of death...)

 

[Robot Chicken]

You're right Edna

 

[Icy Gull]

I believe two engined aircraft, particularly, have to fly within close proximity to land at all times

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Heavier aircraft = greater airspeed.

Basically both aircraft are falling from the sky, and they will both need to have the same airspeed over their wings to remain airbourne (assuming they are identical in all but weight). However, in order to get the speed needed to fly, a lighter aircraft will have top make a steeper dive. A heavier aircraft won't - I think that is correct(?) - this is a mixture of A-Level Physics and my time doing a gliding scholarship at Southdown Gliding Club when I was 16.

Sir you are correct. To achieve lift the aircraft will be put in a nose down attitude. The heaviest will achieve greater speed thus creating more lift when the nose is lifted again. This would be done a number of times the heaviest being able to do it many more times than the lighter one hence more distance but a heavier crash landing!!

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Did you PASS the course? It seems odd to me, as a layman, that the HEAVIER one glides FURTHER....

With flying colours, thanks for asking.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

With flying colours, thanks for asking.

Ah of course, I completely understand

I am flying transatlantic in a couple of weeks and remain completely unperturbed about it...I figure if your number's up, it's up, innit.

And besides: if the end is nigh, at least I saw the Albion stay up last season and can rest safe in the knowledge that after so many years of imagining it I actually witnessed the commencement of building work at Falmer

 

[manilaseagull]

I believe two engined aircraft, particularly, have to fly within close proximity to land at all times

You believe wrong my friend

ETOPS is an acronym for Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards, an International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) rule permitting twin-engined commercial air transporters to fly routes that, at some points, are farther than a distance of 60 minutes' flying time from an emergency or diversion airport with one engine inoperative.

This rule allows twin-engined airliners—such as the Airbus A300, A310, A32X, A330 and A350 families, and the Boeing 737, 757, 767, 777 and 787 and Tupolev Tu-204—to fly long-distance routes that were previously off-limits to twin-engined aircraft. ETOPS operation has no direct correlation to water nor distance over water. It refers to single-engine flight times between diversion airfields—regardless as to whether such fields are separated by water or land.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

You believe wrong my friend

ETOPS is an acronym for Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards, an International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) rule permitting twin-engined commercial air transporters to fly routes that, at some points, are farther than a distance of 60 minutes' flying time from an emergency or diversion airport with one engine inoperative.

This rule allows twin-engined airliners—such as the Airbus A300, A310, A32X, A330 and A350 families, and the Boeing 737, 757, 767, 777 and 787 and Tupolev Tu-204—to fly long-distance routes that were previously off-limits to twin-engined aircraft. ETOPS operation has no direct correlation to water nor distance over water. It refers to single-engine flight times between diversion airfields—regardless as to whether such fields are separated by water or land.

www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/faqs/etopseropsenroutealt.pdf"

This explains all

 

[Icy Gull]

You believe wrong my friend

ETOPS is an acronym for Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards, an International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) rule permitting twin-engined commercial air transporters to fly routes that, at some points, are farther than a distance of 60 minutes' flying time from an emergency or diversion airport with one engine inoperative.

This rule allows twin-engined airliners—such as the Airbus A300, A310, A32X, A330 and A350 families, and the Boeing 737, 757, 767, 777 and 787 and Tupolev Tu-204—to fly long-distance routes that were previously off-limits to twin-engined aircraft. ETOPS operation has no direct correlation to water nor distance over water. It refers to single-engine flight times between diversion airfields—regardless as to whether such fields are separated by water or land.

I'd consider 60 mins to be reasonably close proximity though. Can 4 engined aircraft fly at a greater distance from land?

 

[Mendoza]

That is sad sad news, it seems unlikely of a safe ending, but we can only hope there are survivors

I am glad I am reading this now and not before taking off this afternoon. Ryan Air were dodgy going out on Friday with a couple of bounces along the shortest runway in Europe, thankfully we landed safely then and safely a couple of hours ago at Gatwick

 

[bhaexpress]

I believe two engined aircraft, particularly, have to fly within close proximity to land at all times

No, the reason for using the twin engined 767, 777, Airbus 300 and 330 is about economy and they operate the same routes as the old three and four engined machines but just more cheaply. The last time I flew in an aircraft with more than two engines was in 2001 and that was a rather nasty Delta Airlines MD11.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I'd consider 60 mins to be reasonably close proximity though. Can 4 engined aircraft fly at a greater distance from land?

Yes and so can 2 engined aircraft. The granting of this to an airline is down to reliability of its fleet etc. After a service the aircraft has to conform to a satisfactory flight (no problems found) prior to embarking on a ETOPs flight this can done on route so to speak before it reaches the zone.

 

[Withnail]

I crossed the Atlantic with Air France going to Paris on one of these only last week. Plenty of bad weather with thunder storms over the US on the way too. I'm off for a pint.

 

[Safeway]

Planes fly through tropical storms/turbulence/get hit by lightening all the time. It would seem that, sadly, this flight was just extremely unlucky.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Planes fly through tropical storms/turbulence/get hit by lightening all the time. It would seem that, sadly, this flight was just extremely unlucky.

Our plane got hit by lightening when we flew to Berlin - was very scary. Sounds extremely unlucky for the plane to go down.

Hope they find the plane, for the families' sake. Must be awful not having proof of what has happened to their loved ones.

 

[Northstander]

If that hit the atlantic I only hope they died on impact, can you imagine the horror, going down and waiting for the pressure to finish you off?

 

[itszamora]

If that hit the atlantic I only hope they died on impact, can you imagine the horror, going down and waiting for the pressure to finish you off?

Planes (providing they're still structurally sound) do float for a while - see the Hudson river one.

 

[NF9]

Planes (providing they're still structurally sound) do float for a while - see the Hudson river one.

Difference being Hudson river is pretty docile, where as the Atlantic's swell alone would of made landing allot harder ( Hypothermia would of kicked in by now if anyone survived), and don't forget when/if they ditched it would of been night time so they wouldn't have been able to judge the landing.

I Dont think there is any hope now, the families must be distraught, Very sad.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Planes (providing they're still structurally sound) do float for a while - see the Hudson river one.

Depend swhat angle you hit the water really, and at what speed. Hit it first nose down and the plane would break up and fill with water v quickly