Bob Crow

[Dandyman]

yes what are the oiks doing earning proper money and having effective union leaders who represent their members well. many of whom are immigrants.

f*** me, what's going on ? I'm agreeing with Mr Spanners (although I did think the No2EU stuff was a bit short on thought).

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

what have they got to do with industrial action ?

I initially was making the point that the leader of the RMT Bob Crow is a confirmed communist and that under his regime he has authorised part of the RMTs money to be diverted to Searchlight and the UAF. I then proceeded to refer to the said organizations being undemocratic and not having been elected by anyone do not have either the moral right or the democratic mandate to advocate which organizations should or should not be allowed to operate in a parliamentary democracy. Its nothing to do with industrial action.

I do hope that's now clear.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

His 'Metro' interview was laughable. Came across as a complete and utter twunt. Still, the rail unions are in a strong position as the capital depends on them.

Funny how he seems to come across as a socialist/communist, but probably earns within the top 5% of the country.

 

[Dandyman]

yes, eastleigh borough is fuckall like inner london , no matter how much you try and sex it up.

Does living in N8 for the last 22 years work for me or am I just a tourist (I was born in the leafy splendor of Archway,mind you).

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I initially was making the point that the leader of the RMT Bob Crow is a confirmed communist and that under his regime he has authorised part of the RMTs money to be diverted to Searchlight and the UAF. I then proceeded to refer to the said organizations being undemocratic and not having been elected by anyone do not have either the moral right or the democratic mandate to advocate which organizations should or should be allowed to operate in a parliamentary democracy.

I do hope that's now clear.

i'm sure there's a few BNP sympathisers within the union that are happy with that set up but i understand what your saying.

 

[beorhthelm]

... The issue here is the RMT's default position of striking over EVERYTHING.

i'd say its more Bob Crow's default position to strike over everything, not necessarily the member he supposedly represents.

This website says the average wage is £35,036, and I think that is a fair wage considering the amount of peoples lives are in the hands of a train driver.

Train Driver Average Salary

i thought it was high too. £35k is still damn good money and more than policeman, fireman and nurses. 50k is from commrade Crow himself in an interview in this mornings Metro ( i know... unless we see a full retraction tomorrow we'll assume he did say it.)

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Bob Crow may well be a belligerent bugger, but the RMT will fight to the death for their workers rights. Unlike, say, Unite, who will roll over every time and let their workers be shafted. Like, say, Legal & General workers over the past couple of years. I know who I'd much rather be represented by.

And since Tory privatisation of the railways, the RMT have been one of the main guardians of rail safety in the face of cost-cutting spivs whose first duty is to their shareholders.

 

[beorhthelm]

Bob Crow may well be a belligerent bugger, but the RMT will fight to the death for their workers rights. ... the RMT have been one of the main guardians of rail safety

like when they tried to protect their members rights and tube safety by backing drunk drivers caught with locker full of booze?

in that action the union destroyed all credibility.

 

[Buzzer]

What I don't understand - on a wider point is why the unions continue to blindly pump so much money into the Labour Party (they founded it, they pay for it, they staff huge swathes of it) yet have not yet demanded what they really want. Where are the general strikes? Where are the work to rule? Where are the votes of no confidence in Mandelson, Brown et al?

The TUC should have stamped on the Post Office privatisation before Mandelson started running with it. Apart from the dodgy grant to unions to modernise that this Government has given them I can't see that trade union rights have advanced too far from where they were 12 years ago. What do they get for the Labour Party funding?

Time perhaps for the TUC to withdraw funding and bring forward a new Co-operative party that represent their members. All depends, I think on how badly Labour do in the polls next year. If they get wiped out then that effectively does the job for the unions. They start from their core base and re-build. If Labour finish relatively strongly then that's the time to issue ultimatums. They seem unable to do it right now.

The other thing, I think they ought to do is re-define what a union is and what it represents. Manufacturing is an anomaly in Britain and the traditional workers that filled the unions have all but gone. It's the lower end of the service industries that need union representation. Especially in sectors and geographical areas that aren't traditional union strongholds.

The other thing the unions ought now to recognise is that their language needs to change. Many of us are or aspire to be middle class. Many of us are on the centre or centre right politically. The class warfare of the 70s that Crow espouses may work for his members but more widely just confirms an outdated stereotype.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

 

[beorhthelm]

Many of us are or aspire to be middle class. Many of us are on the centre or centre right politically.

probably answers your question: many of those in unions probably see themselves as more center left, "liberal democratic", middle classes. champagne sociallists with the emphasis on the champers. those in office jobs with a 3 bed house two cars and stocked wine rack can hardly consider themselves working class these days, at least not by historic measure.

 

[jmsc]

I initially was making the point that the leader of the RMT Bob Crow is a confirmed communist and that under his regime he has authorised part of the RMTs money to be diverted to Searchlight and the UAF. I then proceeded to refer to the said organizations being undemocratic and not having been elected by anyone do not have either the moral right or the democratic mandate to advocate which organizations should or should not be allowed to operate in a parliamentary democracy. Its nothing to do with industrial action.

I do hope that's now clear.

I will repeat what I said - YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

I've not told you what my politics are BUT Crowe was elected by the majority of his union (the RMT I believe)

Any union funds donated to anti-facist groups would have to have been agreed by the local union branches.
That is the law in this country.

You really are a fuckwit who has no understanding of how unions work. You may not agree with what they do,
fair enough BUT it's down to the workers to vote on what they want, not teenage cretins like you!

 

[jmsc]

Time perhaps for the TUC to withdraw funding

Another idiot on NSC raises their biased head!

The TUC is funded by the unions! Have a rant by all means but at least get your facts right!

(I'll give you a clue: T.U.C. = Trades Union Congress)

 

[Buzzer]

Another idiot on NSC raises their biased head!

The TUC is funded by the unions! Have a rant by all means but at least get your facts right!

(I'll give you a clue: T.U.C. = Trades Union Congress)

Okay. I concede. I should have said unions individually but as for rant? Does that constitute a rant nowadays? Blimey. You've quite a short temper in that case. I didn't think I was being particularly biased here either. Most of my post involved questions rather than statements and could have been posted by someone firmly in the left wing camp.

Is it 'cause I is black?

 

[User removed 4]

What I don't understand - on a wider point is why the unions continue to blindly pump so much money into the Labour Party (they founded it, they pay for it, they staff huge swathes of it) yet have not yet demanded what they really want. Where are the general strikes? Where are the work to rule? Where are the votes of no confidence in Mandelson, Brown et al?

The TUC should have stamped on the Post Office privatisation before Mandelson started running with it. Apart from the dodgy grant to unions to modernise that this Government has given them I can't see that trade union rights have advanced too far from where they were 12 years ago. What do they get for the Labour Party funding?

Time perhaps for the TUC to withdraw funding and bring forward a new Co-operative party that represent their members. All depends, I think on how badly Labour do in the polls next year. If they get wiped out then that effectively does the job for the unions. They start from their core base and re-build. If Labour finish relatively strongly then that's the time to issue ultimatums. They seem unable to do it right now.

The other thing, I think they ought to do is re-define what a union is and what it represents. Manufacturing is an anomaly in Britain and the traditional workers that filled the unions have all but gone. It's the lower end of the service industries that need union representation. Especially in sectors and geographical areas that aren't traditional union strongholds.

The other thing the unions ought now to recognise is that their language needs to change. Many of us are or aspire to be middle class. Many of us are on the centre or centre right politically. The class warfare of the 70s that Crow espouses may work for his members but more widely just confirms an outdated stereotype.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

100% agree.

 

[User removed 4]

Does living in N8 for the last 22 years work for me or am I just a tourist (I was born in the leafy splendor of Archway,mind you).

come and talk to me when your parents are the last non muslims left in the street in lewes where you grew up,or is that why they left london in the first place, until then , yes you are a tourist, i doubt very much that there are ANY white working class people that were born and grew up in n8 that share your enthusiasm for its "cultural diversity" and "vibrancy".

 

[Gwylan]

Okay. I concede. I should have said unions individually but as for rant? Does that constitute a rant nowadays? Blimey. You've quite a short temper in that case. I didn't think I was being particularly biased here either. Most of my post involved questions rather than statements and could have been posted by someone firmly in the left wing camp.

Is it 'cause I is black?

I'm vaguely left of centre (although TBH I'm not quite sure what that term means these days) and I found myself agreeing with Buzzer so I don't think it was a bigoted rant at all. I've been a trade union official all my working life (and an elected official too) but there should be serious questions about what unions do ... and certainly questions about whether they should fund the Labour Party. I don't think you have to be a Tory to suggest that.

I do believe 100% in trades unions however. People may think they're outmoded but there are still large numbers of people who earn poor wages in poor working conditions and the union might be the only support they have.

Edit: I've just seen that Bushy supports Buzzer too - that's it. I'm now in the right wing camp....what have I done?

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

Tube workers want a 1.5% pay rise,
how will automation stop strikes?

 

[Dandyman]

come and talk to me when your parents are the last non muslims left in the street in lewes where you grew up,or is that why they left london in the first place, until then , yes you are a tourist, i doubt very much that there are ANY white working class people that were born and grew up in n8 that share your enthusiasm for its "cultural diversity" and "vibrancy".

My folks moved to Lewes because my old man was offered a job in Sussex (getting on your bike existed in the 1960s, you know). My parents also were born and grew up in Africa, so are fairly familar with non-whites.

As for the white working class remind what makes a commodity broker with, to quote yourself, a comfortable upbringing any sort of expert on that?

I naively expected someone with a liking for Tamla and Stax to be less of an out and out racist or have I misread you?

 

[User removed 4]

My folks moved to Lewes because my old man was offered a job in Sussex (getting on your bike existed in the 1960s, you know). My parents also were born and grew up in Africa, so are fairly familar with non-whites.

As for the white working class remind what makes a commodity broker with, to quote yourself, a comfortable upbringing any sort of expert on that?

I naively expected someone with a liking for Tamla and Stax to be less of an out and out racist or have I misread you?

you'll hate me even more after sunday !!

 

[Perry Milkins]

she took on , and sadly beat ,the two most powerful unions in the miners and printworkers.If she could beat them, she would destroy the RMT , the last tube strike i didnt even realise it was happening it affected me that little.

Isn't that because you are a goat herder in Northumbria?