ARGENTINA v SERBIA & MONTENEGRO: The NSC Official Thread

[Icy Gull]

At least they'll let us play if we meet them, that is about the only positive I can come up with, yes we beat them recently but does anyone really think they would have taken their best players off in a REAL game. Incidentally that friendly was probably the most enjoyable England performance I've seen for decades, I can stomach losing to a side that plays football like that, as long as we perform well .

The 1-5 in Germany aside of course.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Yes. Boot it up the field and hope for the best. I blame Charles Hughes.

Perry - S&M's style of play is almost irrelevant. Argentina broke them down because as a team they were able to pass accurately to each other and move into space. Also individually they had the ability to beat players, something we only did when Lennon came on.

Who is/was Charles Hughes?

 

[Gwylan]

We, on the other hand, have some of the best players in the world in our team. And they're playing out of position and with a manager who cannot see where they should be playing.

Argentina were awe-inspiring today. Sven needs to take a good hard look.

Eh? Who in the England team yesterday playied out of position (apart from Carragher who replaced an injured Neville).

I'd say the problem was the reverse of that. Gerrard and Lampard are too much like each other so they both play exactly where they do for their clubs. Beckham plays on the right wing, although he hasn't the pace or ability to beat people. We play with a big man up front because that's the way we've always played.

 

[Wilka]

Shall we just give them the cup now...



Very impressive display indeed.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

It had all those things Brovian - but it was also a very disciplined performance - the way the players worked together and used the space was tremendous.

However - the Cup is not won in the qualifying groups. The fat lady is not clearing her voice just yet.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Gerrard and Lampard are too much like each other so they both play exactly where they do for their clubs.

Both play with a holding midfielder which allows them to make their runs forward.

I can't stand El Tel as a person - but as a coach and a football analyst he knows his onions.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

And England all comes down to Beckham. Beckham must play so we have to have a big forward. We have looked good with Rooney and Owen and putting the ball into feet or on the break. But Beckham has to play and so that dictates the entire team structure.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

I have to say Serbia & Montenegro are far from a poor side. Okay they weren't at the races today but Argentina would've broken down any team in the tournament today.

They've raised the bar and hopefully it is the wake up call that England, Brazil, Italy etc need.

 

[Man of Harveys]

In amongst some very erudite tactical discussion, can I just point out quickly that it's nice that the stewards let these fans take their inflatable "Maradona Plastico" lifesize toy into the Gelsenkirchen arena:

 

[pasty]

f*** ME we do NOT want to meet this lot...if we win our group and Argentina win theirs, then we will AVOID them in the quarters.

No f***ing about against Sweden, Sven. we MUST win our group.

Damn straight. I'm just very pleased that Sweden don't actually need to win to go through. A nice bore draw please. We qualify top, and Sven does his home country a favour ensuring they qualify too, whatever T&T do against Paraguay.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

By the way I would love our players to have the control and technique of some of the players we see at World Cups. But until we change the structure of our youth football it is not going to happen. Some clearly make it despite the system, but what talents are we missing by the way youth football is run ?

And Yes - Charles Hughes carries his share of the blame.

 

[rrruss]

The View from Argentina

Wow. At 10am the world stood still in Buenos Aires and held its breath for 5 minutes, then cheered constantly for the next two hours. The celebrations are still continuing in the city centre and you would think they have already won the cup.

Yes, that was an awesome display but their defence is likely to come unstuck when faced with some quality attacking football and Pato (the duck), the goalkeeper from Boca Juniors, is reknowned for fumbling crosses. Everyone is amazed he has not gifted a goal yet, but it will surely happen. They are a fantastic attacking side but can be a bit Keegan-esque in that they always believe they will score more than they concede.

Most of my Argie fans will still hold judgement until they have played Holland, but for now the fiesta is raging in the central plaza and it's not even 1pm yet.

My dream final is, of course, England v Argentina, but can we get there playing football instead of lumping the ball up to the giraffe please.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Who's Charles Bloody Hughes?

 

[smudge]

Who's Charles Bloody Hughes?

Long ball twat who ruined English football from the grass roots up.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

f*** ME we do NOT want to meet this lot...if we win our group and Argentina win theirs, then we will AVOID them in the quarters.

No f***ing about against Sweden, Sven. we MUST win our group.

Exactly - that's what f***ed us in 2002; although we got the slightly easier second-round game by coming second, we got Brazil rather than Belgium or someone in the quarter finals. Group must indeed be won.

 

[Brovion]

Who's Charles Bloody Hughes?

He was the FA's Director of Coaching who espoused the long ball, 'Route 1' game and inspired, if that's the right word, people like Dave Basset, John Beck, Graham Taylor and Howard Wilkinson.

Officially it was called 'POMO' or 'Position Of Maximum Opportunity'. Basically some genius (I think he was actually a retired RAF Squadron Leader) had worked out that the closer you were to your opponents goal the more likely you were to score. Wow. This was a 'POMO' and he produced loads and loads of charts saying how effective it was. So it seemed obvious that the best thing to do was get the ball into 'POMOs' as quickly and as often as possible and you would score loads of goals, hence the development of the long ball game as the quickest and most direct way to get the ball into your opponents area was to boot it up there.

This all seems fine and dandy, unfortunately the theory had one tiny but major flaw - in order to get the ball into a POMO you actually had to have the ball in the first place. If you were playing another POMO team this wouldn't be a problem as they would give it to you, however if you were playing a football team (like Argentina today) you wouldn't get the ball for about five minutes and then you'd thump it upfield and lose it again. Consequently the amount of times you had during a match to get the ball into a POMO was significantly reduced.

Eventually the FA realised it was a load of bollocks and replaced Hughes but the damage was done. DKM is right, the rot starts in boys football.

 

[algie]

It makes me laugh that people went against my prediction in saying they are world class.YOU KNOW WHO YO ARE.I saw enough quality to see they will be one of the favorites without doubt.It will take the winner to beat them.Thats if someone can beat them

 

[London Irish]

Just watched a recording of the game and you had to marvel at the top world class of Riquelme, Tevez and Messi - and much of the rest of the team is filled with players bordering on top world class for their position.

I had Italy down to beat the Argies in the semi before watching this - but you have to say it's looking like an all-South American final now if Spain do their usual f***-up routine.