Anger at decision to acquire Mash Barn

[perseus]

I can't get too worked up about worrying about the training ground as I think we'll get it without much of a problem. The possiblity of a local golf course - now that does excite me.

Don't get too excited the operators make their money from the dumping of spoil. That is their trade. They buy up farmland and then dump spoil on it. The locals were rightly very concerned about this plan because of the possibility of introducing contaminated spoil and because this would close off access to the land. One the dumping is finished the uneconomic golf course may become a liability (arguable). And it is still private property without public access. The land owners have already blocked the "right of way" by bullldozing the trees.

My analysis says the golf course gets in the way. It uses too much land which could be used for more football pitches (ideal world). There is a legacy of dissatisfaction and conflict of opinions of what the land could be used for. But it is private property, controlled for the most part by the land owners, subject to what they can get away with the planners.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Don't get too excited the operators make their money from the dumping of spoil. That is their trade. They buy up farmland and then dump spoil on it. The locals were rightly very concerned about this plan because of the possibility of introducing contaminated spoil and because this would close off access to the land. One the dumping is finished the uneconomic golf course may become a liability (arguable). And it is still private property without public access. The land owners have already blocked the "right of way" by bullldozing the trees.

My analysis says the golf course gets in the way. It uses too much land which could be used for more football pitches (ideal world). There is a legacy of dissatisfaction and conflict of opinions of what the land could be used for. But it is private property, controlled for the most part by the land owners, subject to what they can get away with the planners.

I understand your point, and the golf course plans may well be a red herring but (straying from the Albion topic), what makes you think a golf course would be uneconomic, done well, they make money - more than adding more football pitches (additional to the training centre I presume)

 

[perseus]

I understand your point, and the golf course plans may well be a red herring but (straying from the Albion topic), what makes you think a golf course would be uneconomic, done well, they make money - more than adding more football pitches (additional to the training centre I presume)

Yep, football pitches occur an expense to the Council which is why they were not built.

I put golf course uneconomic (arguable) because my intuition and one golfer I consulted said they didn't. That's why. Expert opinions on the viability of golf course welcome. (I have heard Tescos make more money in half an hour than a Golf Course would make in ten years!) I also met the directors of New Monks Farm Ltd. They said they already had a working golf course near Gillingham (Kent) after a similar spoil dumping scheme. One Councillor at the time tried to visit their premises and they seemed to work from a lock-up garage in Brighton with lots of lorries going in and out.

But the golf course gets them exemption from spoil dumping tax at £20 a lorry load or so (maybe more) and this adds up to a fortune. This is the earner. I think football pitches would have earned the same exemption, but the law and permissions is complicated because there are so many scams going on.

Summary: The Albion Training Complex would contribute more to the regeneration of Lancing than a golf course. Is this view shared by neutrals from Lancing?

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Yep, football pitches occur an expense to the Council which is why they were not built.

I put golf course uneconomic (arguable) because my intuition and one golfer I consulted said they didn't. That's why. Expert opinions on the viability of golf course welcome. (I have heard Tescos make more money in half an hour than a Golf Course would make in ten years!) I also met the directors of New Monks Farm Ltd. They said they already had a working golf course near Gillingham (Kent) after a similar spoil dumping scheme. One Councillor at the time tried to visit their premises and they seemed to work from a lock-up garage in Brighton with lots of lorries going in and out.

But the golf course gets them exemption from spoil dumping tax at £20 a lorry load or so (maybe more) and this adds up to a fortune. This is the earner. I think football pitches would have earned the same exemption, but the law and permissions is complicated because there are so many scams going on.

Summary: The Albion Training Complex would contribute more to the regeneration of Lancing than a golf course. Is this view shared by neutrals from Lancing?

I don't understand the Tescos comparison, seems rather irrelvent - but clearly golf courses can make money, there are enough of them around still in business. I'm not expert, but they have suffered in these times like any other business - especially, I suspect, the ones where the majority of players are members, rather than pay & play. I did some rough sums when Hassocks was up for sale, and while I could have found the money to buy it, and make a profit, I didn't think I could make the investment in some of the infrastructure that I would have liked to have done.

Still, we're straying from the point rather.

 

[perseus]

I don't understand the Tescos comparison, seems rather irrelvent - but clearly golf courses can make money, there are enough of them around still in business. I'm not expert, but they have suffered in these times like any other business - especially, I suspect, the ones where the majority of players are members, rather than pay & play. I did some rough sums when Hassocks was up for sale, and while I could have found the money to buy it, and make a profit, I didn't think I could make the investment in some of the infrastructure that I would have liked to have done.

Still, we're straying from the point rather.

Sorry, I meant to say NEW golf courses. Established golf courses run a bit like football clubs, struggling for the most part. They might make some money but if alternative uses could be found for the land, it would be more profitable.

The relevant point is that if the golf course did not go ahead there would be more land available. And I think only a sporting use would be eligible. The other land is not so good in soil standard but it is further away from the houses and more likely to be supported by opinion. Furthermore the area could be larger. If you look at the current plan, the pitches are much too cramped.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Sorry, I meant to say NEW golf courses. Established golf courses run a bit like football clubs, struggling for the most part. They might make some money but if alternative uses could be found for the land, it would be more profitable.

The relevant point is that if the golf course did not go ahead there would be more land available. And I think only a sporting use would be eligible. The other land is not so good in soil standard but it is further away from the houses and more likely to be supported by opinion. Furthermore the area could be larger. If you look at the current plan, the pitches are much too cramped.

Clearly startup costs are quite high for a new golf course - as much as non-players might think, it's not just a bit of empty land with an occassional flag in it, these things need to be deisgned, sculpted and cultivated - but I would think, provided it was done properly, and by that I mean offerering as many facilities as possible (range, academcy course, shop, clubhouse, restaurant plus the 18 hole course) - over a reasonable period of time, I'm sure a profit can be made. I've never counted, but I would think there are currently at least 30 courses within 30 mins drive from Shoreham, so don't underestimate the popularity, and possible income. Not sure how many full-time local jobs that would be created, but clearly some, and additional income to the community.

I'm really only arguing for the sake of it, I'm not advocating a golf course there, but I would use it, if it was done well. There are plenty aroud that I like to go to.

 

[perseus]

Clearly startup costs are quite high for a new golf course - as much as non-players might think, it's not just a bit of empty land with an occassional flag in it, these things need to be deisgned, sculpted and cultivated - but I would think, provided it was done properly, and by that I mean offerering as many facilities as possible (range, academcy course, shop, clubhouse, restaurant plus the 18 hole course) - over a reasonable period of time, I'm sure a profit can be made. I've never counted, but I would think there are currently at least 30 courses within 30 mins drive from Shoreham, so don't underestimate the popularity, and possible income. Not sure how many full-time local jobs that would be created, but clearly some, and additional income to the community.

I'm really only arguing for the sake of it, I'm not advocating a golf course there, but I would use it, if it was done well. There are plenty aroud that I like to go to.

Thanks for the reply. It is not really an argument as I am just sounding out the score as I do not run in golf club circles. I do touch down nearby sometimes.

In the Lancing case a lot of the sculpting might be done as part of the spoil dumping and the capital cost may not be incurred or only as deficit to the dumping profits.

I was thinking about the maintenance costs versus income. My limited advice was that that were quite a few (too many) golf courses locally and why would golfers want to change to a new club? The antidote to that is the planners/politicians want to build a road through Worthing Golf Course there may very well be a demand!

The same argument applies to the football fields. The Council would incur an expense. Now if they could persuade the Albion to pay for the upkeep for the public pitches, the Council would resolve the problem. The problem may very well be there is not enough room on the Council land for public pitches and Albion pitches There may not be enough room for football pitches and a 18 hole golf course.

There are other places for golf courses. My first sounding was that New Monks Farm Ltd maintained that a golf course was viable. But for how long? I am not sure they still own the land anyway. Somebody else might know if planning permission was granted for a clubhouse or not? Access to the golf course was always going to be through Mash Barn Lane from the west.

Planners and politicians are generally attach too much importance to the business plan, unless it seems the firm is going to go bankrupt and somebody has to foot a bill, e.g. the golf club was meant to comply with the S.106 agreement. Their are lot of bulldozers going around making mounds of spoil and frightening the deer, which are a hazard to aircraft (arguable).

 

[perseus]

Rethink on Details

Something aint quite right about the plan. The Council land is not large enough. Is there any dosh in the Albion camp to buy out the golf course when the dumping is finished? As land owners there is control. There is going to be a delay.

cf. Derby County | News | Latest News | Latest News | Moor Farm Tournament Is Success
http://www.bbc.co.uk/derby/rams/2003/rams_academy/pictures_derby_county_academy.shtml

There are other web sites as well.

Summary: the 14 acres Adur Council land is not enough and the whole site covers over 100 acres.

 

[Hamilton]

I think the Albion underestimate their position (or maybe they don't). A category 1 academy should be seen as a jewel to have. It should be built and guarantee some local jobs.

Now, if Albion were to say that they were going to approach Eastbourne Borough Council - or any other council for that matter - with a view to building it elsewhere, then Adur Council would be left staring at the prospect of losing a business that was prepared to do something progressive with a piece of scrub land that has remained unused for decades.

Local development plan my arse! That land, if the Albion walk away, will be earmarked for some nice Barratt Homes. That'll bring the locals some nice noise, traffic and chaos.

 

[perseus]

I think the Albion underestimate their position (or maybe they don't). A category 1 academy should be seen as a jewel to have. It should be built and guarantee some local jobs.

Now, if Albion were to say that they were going to approach Eastbourne Borough Council - or any other council for that matter - with a view to building it elsewhere, then Adur Council would be left staring at the prospect of losing a business that was prepared to do something progressive with a piece of scrub land that has remained unused for decades.

Local development plan my arse! That land, if the Albion walk away, will be earmarked for some nice Barratt Homes. That'll bring the locals some nice noise, traffic and chaos.

Mixed Views:

Class 1 status requires a minimum of an annual investment of over £2 million, so of which will filter down and this would be an over £2 million boost to the local economy. I expect this would only be affordable with Premiership football. It would be everybody’s interest to get this right. I would like to see the Academy further east on the Golf Course land, scrapping the golf course entirely.

Mash Barn Community Meeting | Save Our Gap

Houses without jobs. Social housing component for locals or else we will have more Londoners coming down competing for a lack of jobs. Already, something like 85% of local residents have to travel outside of Adur to get work. Some move from outside into Adur to work, but there is still a massive shortage of local employment and this will be exacerbated by the hospital services and Civic Centre moving out. I think the planners must consider any firms wishing to employ people, preferably outside of the retail area; manufacturing, services, warehousing ? etc. Households may now have two or more people looking for local employment and 65% will use cars to go to work. The strategic is zoned for sports and recreation currently and the Albion plan in the right place on the large site is a qualifier. I would thought the proposal deserves consideration.