[Politics] 2020 US election - Joe Biden vs Donald Trump

[dingodan]

He is 100% Karen. Amazed he hasn't asked to speak to "a manager" yet.

This is so wierd. I'm not losing my sh*t and being rude, I'm just pointing out that what someone said isn't actually true. People are losing their sh*t at me, actually.

 

[Badger Boy]

To be clear, if Gary Johnson hadn't run as a spoiler candidate in 2016, Clinton would have won if his voters had voted for her. The margins in the swing states were so narrow that the votes for him in her column would have been sufficient to flip some states in Clinton's favour.

Trump's cult is incredibly well supported and there are plenty of stupid people who simply don't know better. But the campaign by the Democrats both publically and away from the public eye has been impressive and consistent. It's quite clear that adults are needed back in the White House and wankers like Betsy De Vos should be sent packing immediately before they can do any more damage.

It's going to be a big Biden win, as well it should be. Trump's hilarious and a clown, but that's not a president. He's an awful person and will hopefully just disappear into the background without the 24/7 coverage of his silly Twitterings.

 

[dingodan]

Lot's of campaigning reported to be going on inside polling stations, and campaign signs spotted outside polling stations (both of which are illegal).

 

[southstandandy]

I wouldn't trust either of them - one doesn't know what planet he's on, and the other doesn't know what day of the week it is. I'll have option C please Bob.

 

[fruitnveg]

Its Trump, you've all been duped.

Will there be any reflection when he wins from the Dems and their fans? I seriously doubt they're capable.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Lot's of campaigning reported to be going on inside polling stations, and campaign signs spotted outside polling stations (both of which are illegal).

Here we go.

Kick off with the "left are the true fascists", move swiftly on to "voter intimidation" and we'll be at "living in Russia" by midnight, even though the Russians, as a Nationalist state, would absolutely love four more years of Trump.

 

[crodonilson]

To be clear, if Gary Johnson hadn't run as a spoiler candidate in 2016, Clinton would have won if his voters had voted for her. The margins in the swing states were so narrow that the votes for him in her column would have been sufficient to flip some states in Clinton's favour.

Trump's cult is incredibly well supported and there are plenty of stupid people who simply don't know better. But the campaign by the Democrats both publically and away from the public eye has been impressive and consistent. It's quite clear that adults are needed back in the White House and wankers like Betsy De Vos should be sent packing immediately before they can do any more damage.

It's going to be a big Biden win, as well it should be. Trump's hilarious and a clown, but that's not a president. He's an awful person and will hopefully just disappear into the background without the 24/7 coverage of his silly Twitterings.

Sleepy Joe hasn't had to do anything really, all he had to do was avoid any major gaffes, which he has successfully done. It's essentially as much a referendum on Trump as a genuine Republican v Democratic election. You may as well have on the Ballot Paper 'Trump' and 'Not Trump'. I think after 4 years of Trump even crooked Hillary would have won this time round.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

To be clear, if Gary Johnson hadn't run as a spoiler candidate in 2016, Clinton would have won if his voters had voted for her. The margins in the swing states were so narrow that the votes for him in her column would have been sufficient to flip some states in Clinton's favour.

Trump's cult is incredibly well supported and there are plenty of stupid people who simply don't know better. But the campaign by the Democrats both publically and away from the public eye has been impressive and consistent. It's quite clear that adults are needed back in the White House and wankers like Betsy De Vos should be sent packing immediately before they can do any more damage.

It's going to be a big Biden win, as well it should be. Trump's hilarious and a clown, but that's not a president. He's an awful person and will hopefully just disappear into the background without the 24/7 coverage of his silly Twitterings.

Gary Johnson didn't take votes off Clinton.

Libertarians weren't ever voting for Clinton.

Do you mean Jill Stein of the Greens?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I wouldn't trust either of them - one doesn't know what planet he's on, and the other doesn't know what day of the week it is. I'll have option C please Bob.

And yet people still will only push voting red or blue.

Vote for one of the other parties and your vote is considered a spoiler vote, not a vote of your choice for a different party.

Democrats got angry last election when people chose to vote for the Greens, blaming them for losing them the election.

The sheer arrogance and entitlement is why US politics needs a massive overhaul.

So other parties can have an easier path to being represented in government.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

And yet people still will only push voting red or blue.

Vote for one of the other parties and your vote is considered a spoiler vote, not a vote of your choice for a different party.

Democrats got angry last election when people chose to vote for the Greens, blaming them for losing them the election.

The sheer arrogance and entitlement is why US politics needs a massive overhaul.

So other parties can have an easier path to being represented in government.

I actually agree with this, the sister in law voted Libertarian and my wife said she wasted her vote, saying we must get trump out at all costs.

That is part of the problem, if America had a sizeable third party their politics would be far more accountable and progress on pressing issues such as race, healthcare and the environment would be pushed to the fore even if to appease voters, it would make them more accountable.

As far as I see it, you have the two main parties Tory light and Tory right right.
That is not good for any progressive country, least of all a so called world super power.

 

[dingodan]

Here we go.

Kick off with the "left are the true fascists", move swiftly on to "voter intimidation" and we'll be at "living in Russia" by midnight, even though the Russians, as a Nationalist state, would absolutely love four more years of Trump.

I didn't say "the left are true fascists".

I didn't say anything was "voter intimidation", it had been implied that election observers were a form of voter intimidation, and I showed one being prevented entry to a polling station.

I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to Russia.

So far I have challenged a lazy and inaccurate accusation of fascism, and I have pointed out that the law isn't being followed at some polling stations.

Since when is it wrong to politely challenge/correct inaccurate statements? Since when is it wrong to be in favor of a free and fair vote where electoral laws are followed?

You are a mod, you should probably know better than to write a post like that.

 

[Stato]

Fascism is a collectivist ideology (the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it).

Trump is a pretty strong individualist (as is the U.S. Constitution).

Today's left are fiercely collectivist, the right are fiercely individualist. Technically the left have more in common with fascism than Trump or the right does. Sorry.

Trump has his faults, there are many, but he's not a fascist.

Your reasoning is fallacious. Yes Fascism, as defined by Mussolini, was a statist ideology and has this in common with state Communism as practiced in the USSR, but you omit the tenets of fascism that are not shared by modern leftists, but are shared by Trump (authoritarianism, nationalism) and that which are shared by neither Trump, nor the modern left (imperialism, militarism). Your comparison is like saying that a cat has more in common with a table than it does with a person, because a cat and a table both have four legs.

Also, some of the right are individualist and some are not. Many are also flexible for example on whether you are asking them about gun ownership (individualist), or planned parenthood (statist). Most of today's modern left are collectivist, but not statist. Collectivism is a different belief from statism. You would be hard pushed to find many on the left in America who believe in the pre-eminence of the USA as a state, over the good of the people who live there, but a fascist, by definition, would.

I'd agree with your conclusion that Trump himself isn't a fascist though. You could argue that he is a populist and an isolationist. Conversely to his rhetoric, he is definitely an elitist. He believes in exceptionalism, but just values the business elite, over the intellectual and political. He's definitely an opportunist, but mostly I'd define him as a fantasist, a liar and a criminal. However, he does seem reckless and selfish enough to employ fascists if they're deemed to be useful to him. I'd certainly believe that there is an argument to suggest that Stephen Miller has sympathies with fascism: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ller-white-nationalist-trump-immigration-guru

 

[AlbionBro]

I am no fan of either of these two. But Biden just looks like a walking corpse to me, in fact, I have seen some more lively.
Mind you I am no spring chicken, but I still have plenty of get up and go. This will inevitably end up in fisticuffs downtown, whatever the result is.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I actually agree with this, the sister in law voted Libertarian and my wife said she wasted her vote, saying we must get trump out at all costs.

That is part of the problem, if America had a sizeable third party their politics would be far more accountable and progress on pressing issues such as race, healthcare and the environment would be pushed to the fore even if to appease voters, it would make them more accountable.

As far as I see it, you have the two main parties Tory light and Tory right right.
That is not good for any progressive country, least of all a so called world super power.

The only realistic opportunity for change is if the black vote splits from the Democrats and either aligns with another party or forms a new party.

They get next to nothing for their vote as it's taken from granted.

Votes should be used to broker positive things for your communities.

In any democratic nation all seats should be swing seats so government's are required to listen and deliver what the people need.

 

[dingodan]

Your reasoning is fallacious. Yes Fascism, as defined by Mussolini, was a statist ideology and has this in common with state Communism as practiced in the USSR, but you omit the tenets of fascism that are not shared by modern leftists, but are shared by Trump (authoritarianism, nationalism) and that which are shared by neither Trump, nor the modern left (imperialism, militarism). Your comparison is like saying that a cat has more in common with a table than it does with a person, because a cat and a table both have four legs.

Also, some of the right are individualist and some are not. Many are also flexible for example on whether you are asking them about gun ownership (individualist), or planned parenthood (statist). Most of today's modern left are collectivist, but not statist. Collectivism is a different belief from statism. You would be hard pushed to find many on the left in America who believe in the pre-eminence of the USA as a state, over the good of the people who live there, but a fascist, by definition, would.

I'd agree with your conclusion that Trump himself isn't a fascist though. You could argue that he is a populist and an isolationist. Conversely to his rhetoric, he is definitely an elitist. He believes in exceptionalism, but just values the business elite, over the intellectual and political. He's definitely an opportunist, but mostly I'd define him as a fantasist, a liar and a criminal. However, he does seem reckless and selfish enough to employ fascists if they're deemed to be useful to him. I'd certainly believe that there is an argument to suggest that Stephen Miller has sympathies with fascism: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ller-white-nationalist-trump-immigration-guru

Well it's an interesting discussion and on some of that (but not all of it - No platforming/curtailing freedom of speech for example, is authoritarian) I agree and it's not contrary to what I said, but I'm glad you acknowledge my central point, which wasn't that the left are fascists by the way, but that Trump isn't one.

"You would be hard pushed to find many on the left in America who believe in the pre-eminence of the USA as a state, over the good of the people who live there" - When you put it like that, sure. But when you put it another way, "You would be hard pushed to find many on the left in America who believe that group identity and group interests are more important than the identity or interests of the individual", I think you would find that that's modern leftist politics in a nutshell.

 

[Badger Boy]

The same two showing up on every thread spreading nonsense as usual. By the end of the week, there'll be a whole lot of new theories and claims. Probably also without any kind of proof or supporting evidence (because they're all made up and just plain silly).

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The same two showing up on every thread spreading nonsense as usual. By the end of the week, there'll be a whole lot of new theories and claims. Probably also without any kind of proof or supporting evidence (because they're all made up and just plain silly).

You said Gary Johnson took votes off Clinton.

That's the real nonsense.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1323613856111960069?s=21

 

[Weststander]

Biden landslide.

Then corrupt Trump will first try to use the courts to reverse the peoples verdict.

If that fails, expect WH burning of candles as shredding goes on for many weeks, at the same unsubtle calls for "resistance" to his armed thicko's.

 

[Stat Brother]

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1323613856111960069?s=21

If you've taken it upon yourself to start bringing us this 'news' now, you're in for a very long night.