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11 Year old shot
- Thread starter Goodfella
- Start date
tedebear
Legal Alien
I know what you're saying - but in my eyes alot of the campaigning for "human rights" has given rise to a minority taking the piss out of it...I saw some kids on the news last night with flashy trainers, and diamonds in their ears, gel in their hair and expensive looking trackie tops and they were being interviewed about gun crime (I think)....now if they got into trouble - I'd be all for taking their sneakers and mp3 players off them - they'd learn...they'd also learn they don't need them so really no effect on their human rights?...
My Dad used to be a headmaster, and early on in his career was allowed to use the cane, which he hated doing. Obviously its no longer used, but my Dad reckons that when society decided that discipline in school was no longer "legal" that it wasn't replaced by discipline/teaching of respect at home which it should be...
Its all well and good for parents to tell teachers not to touch their children (and I would be in that camp too!) but then who should be teaching that child? at the moment its falling to no-one....
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tedebear
Legal Alien
I don't think its too late - but i think the action required will be very hard for some people to swallow...whether or not there is a politician willing to stand up and risk it is another question...
I think (as I mentioned before):
Curfews
Parents serving time/community service together as punishment for their childs crimes
ASBOS on parents as well as children for the childs anti social behaviour
Child benefits removed from families who have kids who have committed a crime
and some how or other getting teachers back the power they deserve - although that I don't know how to do....
and so on....
its tough medicine but would certainly open a few eyes...
Dover
Home at Last.
Shegull
New member
I agree with you about teachers but to make it a crime for a parent to smack a child is ridiculous. I'll put my hand up (and might well be the only one on here) to smacking my children when they were younger and deserved it. It didn't do them a bit of harm. Discipline should start at home but if the ones at home were never disciplined then where does one start trying to enforce it now.
tedebear
Legal Alien
Oh no I wasn't saying that at all - I agree with you entirely. Parents don't want teachers to discipline their kids in that way, but the parents aren't doing it themselves....There are alternatives to smacking for those who don't like it, such as the currently popular naughty step (nany Jo Frost step up) and my favourite which is taking toys/dvds etc away, but if this isn't done at an early age, what hope have the parents got when their kids become teenagers and are out and about seeing other kids....
Lord Bracknell
On fire
It's not just the breakdown in family life that is the problem. It's the fact that "family life" has been replaced by a street culture with quite different rules.
Kids are increasingly growing up thinking that their first (and, possibly, only) responsibility is to their mates on the streets. And that they can only fulfil that responsibility by showing the right attitudes, including toughness, aggression and not being bovvered by conventional figures of authority.
Whilst I agree that leniency from the conventional authorities isn't contributing anything, it might equally be the case that tough sentencing won't work - if all it does is reinforce the solidarity that holds street culture together.
Kids are increasingly growing up thinking that their first (and, possibly, only) responsibility is to their mates on the streets. And that they can only fulfil that responsibility by showing the right attitudes, including toughness, aggression and not being bovvered by conventional figures of authority.
Whilst I agree that leniency from the conventional authorities isn't contributing anything, it might equally be the case that tough sentencing won't work - if all it does is reinforce the solidarity that holds street culture together.
Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
tedebear
Legal Alien
HampshireSeagulls
Moulding Generation Z
National Service is not the answer. No-one in the Forces wants these people working with them - taking a yob and giving him a gun gives you a yob with a gun, not a functioning member of society. If you only put them in for two years, the adminstration involved is huge, they simply won't work for the crap wages, and they are not mentally tough enough for the work required to complete basic training and then operational time - these people want it easy. The most you will get is fit, trained, gun-savvy chavs after two years.
Dover - getting a gun is as easy as getting tax-free ciggies in the pub. Seriously. I could be armed within about 45 minutes with a simple 9mm handgun, a couple of hours for a semi-automatic or a shotgun, but give me a week for something along the lines of an assault rifle.
All of them come with no serial numbers, never been used.
And some bloke has just been shot in the face in Hertfordshire over what appears to be a driving incident. I remember people starting to carry knives for "self defence" - do we now get to the stage where you need to carry a gun for "self defence"?
Dover - getting a gun is as easy as getting tax-free ciggies in the pub. Seriously. I could be armed within about 45 minutes with a simple 9mm handgun, a couple of hours for a semi-automatic or a shotgun, but give me a week for something along the lines of an assault rifle.
All of them come with no serial numbers, never been used.
And some bloke has just been shot in the face in Hertfordshire over what appears to be a driving incident. I remember people starting to carry knives for "self defence" - do we now get to the stage where you need to carry a gun for "self defence"?
The Clown of Pevensey Bay
Well-known member
I think Rooney's from the scummy bit of Croxteth. This happened in the slightly newer, Barratt-homey suburb of Croxteth Park.
Agree with much that DTG and Tede say but would like to add that the absence of police walking a beat has greatly contributed to the terror on our streets. Okay I'm an old fogie but I do remember that when I was a lad living in Hangleton the local bobby always seemed to be around and stopped trouble before it got out of hand. He knew where we lived and our parents. So we learnt how to behave on the streets and treat people and property with respect. Since cops have travelled around in cars, graffiti, litter, violence have all increased. We lost the streets ages ago and now can only firefight.
Of course parents are the key to teaching civilised behaviour but many parents of today themselves have not been taught how to behave so there have to be tough outside controls.
I also think that movies/tv and PC games have made violence seem acceptable and there needs to be more control of them.
Of course parents are the key to teaching civilised behaviour but many parents of today themselves have not been taught how to behave so there have to be tough outside controls.
I also think that movies/tv and PC games have made violence seem acceptable and there needs to be more control of them.
Shegull
New member
The majority of people who can remember the bobby on the street are the people who respected things and most of all life. Nowadays that bobby on the street would probably be shot or stabbed by some little low life scum street urchins.
I agree 100%. The games you see are an utter disgrace. Why do you need a 'game' where you 'play' a gunman, or a serial killer. They are so real now too, and the ratings system on them is pointless as the parents don't seem to give two shits about what their kids play.
I'd ban the lot - seriously.
But then we won't let our kids play with toy guns so we're probably 'too liberal'.
HampshireSeagulls
Moulding Generation Z
We have lots of policemen on bikes around here at the moment - they get to incidents really quickly, they are always visible, and they position themselves where they think problems will occur (children leaving school, pubs kicking out). They seem to defuse situations purely because they are on bicycles rather than sitting in a bloody great meatwagon with the sole purpose of nicking everything in site. They have proven themselves a few times with pursuits across rough ground where they have caught the little sods who thought they could go "4x4" and lose the police cars.
And then they go and stuff it all up by ensuring that a "skateboarding policeman" attends skateboard lessons at the local park - destroying the credibility of the lessons, making him look like a pressganged fool, and ensuring that all the yobs go nowhere near the park until the lessons are finished!
And then they go and stuff it all up by ensuring that a "skateboarding policeman" attends skateboard lessons at the local park - destroying the credibility of the lessons, making him look like a pressganged fool, and ensuring that all the yobs go nowhere near the park until the lessons are finished!
HampshireSeagulls
Moulding Generation Z
Kids make guns out of anything - I've seen pre-schoolers use lego to make guns, or failing that, use thumb and fingers. When we were young, we used to watch 18 films, but looking at them again with older eyes, they were tame. Nowadays, the language in a PG is pretty appalling, the violence is accurate (but not accurate enough, IMO, to really show people what happens when someone gets stabbed or shot, or badly beaten up), and no-one blinks.
"Crap" used to be a banned word, so did "shit" - the words are used daily in the media. Even "f***" means nothing to the yobs who can't complete a sentence without it because they use it so much. And the police do not enforce the law - they ignore the chavs who pepper their "language" with it, but if you walked into a police station with the word on a t-shirt, you would be nicked. And here I am typing it on an open forum with no age controls, looking at it realistically, it's ridiculous!
Mr C
..ooOOoo..
By doing exactly what Easy 10 said earlier in this thread.
Even if tougher action meant these pieces of scum stood "firm" with their mates on the streets for a while, I think we can be pretty sure that after a while when their life was going to get utter shit, they'd turn their back on their so-called "mates".
Gilliver's Travels
Peripatetic
When I was a boy at Hove Grammar it was all so very different... it was all about respect for the local bobby, greeting the headmaster in classical Greek every morning, singing the school song in the original Latin.. And feeling glad that we hadn't disgraced mater and pater by failing the eleven plus and being consigned to the Knoll so-called 'school' for future Borstal boys.
Oh, yes. We had proper GCEs in those days, not the ones you get free nowadays with a box of Col Sanders' Chicken McNuggets. And A-Levels that you could actually fail - imagine that! Only one in eight boys ever made it to university. The others were taken out and shot, or joined the Foreign Legion. And back then, girls didn't count, or maybe they hadn't been invented. Buggered if I can remember...
Clearly, the only answer to problem children is to stop all STUPID PEOPLE from BREEDING. Then we'd have no more stupid people's kids littering our streets with their hooded shell-suits, nasty Argos earrings, knuckle dusters and spray cans, horrid, brutish accents and complete ignorance of French irregular verbs. And if we did find any, they would of course be exterminated... preferably with their own guns.
That's what we need. Tougher laws. More armed police, more prisons, and more executions. It works!
Just look at the USA, where of course there is no violence, and no crime at all.
Oh, yes. We had proper GCEs in those days, not the ones you get free nowadays with a box of Col Sanders' Chicken McNuggets. And A-Levels that you could actually fail - imagine that! Only one in eight boys ever made it to university. The others were taken out and shot, or joined the Foreign Legion. And back then, girls didn't count, or maybe they hadn't been invented. Buggered if I can remember...
Clearly, the only answer to problem children is to stop all STUPID PEOPLE from BREEDING. Then we'd have no more stupid people's kids littering our streets with their hooded shell-suits, nasty Argos earrings, knuckle dusters and spray cans, horrid, brutish accents and complete ignorance of French irregular verbs. And if we did find any, they would of course be exterminated... preferably with their own guns.
That's what we need. Tougher laws. More armed police, more prisons, and more executions. It works!
Just look at the USA, where of course there is no violence, and no crime at all.