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[Politics] General Election 2024 - 4th July



O

oldboyroy

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2009
5,997
born and bred in Eastbourne but now live in West M
NorthstandRacoon said:
The Sun is backing Labour, f***ing hell. But, scum papers just jumping on the victory, saying they wanted it all along. Desperate wankers.
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Indeed. Like it took them till 3pm yesterday afternoon to announce it when they finally accepted the polls hadn't moved much. You watch them gloat if by any chance the tories get enough for a hung parliament or even scrape a win.! It doesn't bear thinking about😡😡😡
 




Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
36,415
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Machiavelli said:
Nice response, but I'll carry on using it. You're invoking 20C episodes there, which were undoubtedly horrific. Not so sure 'the centre' necessarily helped with the lead up to either of those, but I'm less concerned about that point, and am more concerned that:
-- centrism isn't a 'thing', it moves all the time (what was it in 1948, 1982, 2006, 2016 and 2022, for instance? is it the same in Brazil, Bhutan and Britain?, etc) and anyone that thinks they can identify it is kidding themselves
-- it is deployed to shut down alternatives, and the shutting down of alternatives also constitutes a threat to or diminution of democracy
-- it's also used to ward off change; this is sometimes fine, but at other times -- like when things are broken, when long-held ideas, values and policies have proven that they no longer work (any of this sound familiar?) -- warding off change stores up problems that can become more explosive when they play out

That said, the majority identify with/as the centre, but I'll plough on with the Sisyphean task.
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The anti change thing is the opposite of what I believe centrism can achieve. Conservatives, by definition, don’t want change (or want to change things back to an imagined past, shitstalga again).

Blair and Obama are centre left for me. Blair reduced NHS waiting times, created SureStart, gave the BoE power over interest rates and brought in Academies. Obama oversaw the biggest change to the American health system in history.

“Change” is what I do for a living. There’s no way Starmer would get my support if I thought he was against it.

Of course, what they’re not for is complete change to the economic model or prioritising climate change over everything else. People are free to vote Green if that’s what they want, so the alternative is there. It just doesn’t seem popular.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
61,615
The Fatherland






Rdodge30

Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
532
My bets today are all to varying degrees on low voter turnout - based on the new voter ID requirement.

I expect news stories Tonight/tomorrow to be that low voter turnout is responsible for every aspect of the result!!

Tory seats under 100? .. LVT
Labour seats under 500?..LVT
Liberals don’t get 70 (as if!) …LVT
Reform less than 7 …etc etc 😆
 


T

TomandJerry

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2013
12,323
Rdodge30 said:
My bets today are all to varying degrees on low voter turnout - based on the new voter ID requirement.

I expect news stories Tonight/tomorrow to be that low voter turnout is responsible for every aspect of the result!!

Tory seats under 100? .. LVT
Labour seats under 500?..LVT
Liberals don’t get 70 (as if!) …LVT
Reform less than 7 …etc etc 😆
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It'd be ironic if the Tories moaned about a system they bought in :shrug:
 






G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,676
Uffern
Got to polling station at 7 and it was already open - was sixth in the queue to vote. I don't normally wait to vote but I imagine that ID checking is bringing delays. I think also that there are fewer staff. I'm sure in previous elections you went to a different person according to your address, but only person checking today
 




Frutos

Frutos

.
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
May 3, 2006
36,099
Northumberland
IMG-20240704-WA0001.jpg
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
25,294
I woke up feeling grumpy and utterly detached from it all. An electoral system that returns a record majority for a party with possibly less than 40% of the vote, a government that ran a campaign with showed utter contempt for us, a media that has such power that our new leader shows delight at an endorsement by the scumiest piece of filth on the planet.

I told myself that folk had died for this right and I had to go to the polling booth. So I did and wrote 'Larry the Cat' on my ballot paper.
 




R

ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,541
Just far enough away from LDC
Eeyore said:
I woke up feeling grumpy and utterly detached from it all. An electoral system that returns a record majority for a party with possibly less than 40% of the vote, a government that ran a campaign with showed utter contempt for us, a media that has such power that our new leader shows delight at an endorsement by the scumiest piece of filth on the planet.

I told myself that folk had died for this right and I had to go to the polling booth. So I did and wrote 'Larry the Cat' on my ballot paper.
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You can't blame a winner for winning. As someone who has seen the labour campaign closely it's interesting how it's about not piling up votes where they aren't of value. It's about using votes efficiently ( a bit how lib dems are doing). It's how the Tories have operated previously too. Their resources have been focussed that way. If the rules were different then the campaign approach would be too.
 






Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
25,294
ROSM said:
You can't blame a winner for winning. As someone who has seen the labour campaign closely it's interesting how it's about not piling up votes where they aren't of value. It's about using votes efficiently ( a bit how lib dems are doing). It's how the Tories have operated previously too. Their resources have been focussed that way. If the rules were different then the campaign approach would be too.
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I live in Kemptown and just thought what the point was really. Labour should get 60-70%. I didn't want to vote Labour and I haven't voted Tory for 30 years and can't see myself doing again. Then I just thought how mad the electoral system is and how all votes aren't equal. I'm pretty sure I once researched it and no government has had 50%+1 of the vote in my lifetime. Therefore no government has ever had a mandate (maybe the Con/Lib coalition).

There was even an election in 1951 where the Tories got less votes than Labour and won more seats !
 


kevo

kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,471
Tories Out bingo card

bingo3.PNG
 






R

ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,541
Just far enough away from LDC
Eeyore said:
I live in Kemptown and just thought what the point was really. Labour should get 60-70%. I didn't want to vote Labour and I haven't voted Tory for 30 years and can't see myself doing again. Then I just thought how mad the electoral system is and how all votes aren't equal. I'm pretty sure I once researched it and no government has had 50%+1 of the vote in my lifetime. Therefore no government has ever had a mandate (maybe the Con/Lib coalition).

There was even an election in 1951 where the Tories got less votes than Labour and won more seats !
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I don't disagree. Only Blair in 1997 won the most votes for a party in all age demographics too. I think the last 50+1 was pre 1918 so over 100yrs old. This is certainly the most diverse vote share with 5 national parties likely to get more than 1.5m votes and 2 regional ones doing well in their country. In effect 7 major parties. As a result anybody getting more than 40% would be blasting this
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,676
Uffern
Eeyore said:
I live in Kemptown and just thought what the point was really. Labour should get 60-70%. I didn't want to vote Labour and I haven't voted Tory for 30 years and can't see myself doing again. Then I just thought how mad the electoral system is and how all votes aren't equal. I'm pretty sure I once researched it and no government has had 50%+1 of the vote in my lifetime. Therefore no government has ever had a mandate (maybe the Con/Lib coalition).

There was even an election in 1951 where the Tories got less votes than Labour and won more seats !
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In 1874, the Liberals got 52% of the votes and still lost, finishing 100 seats behind the Tories.

I think there have been four other occasions since the Second Reform Act where a party has grabbed more than 50% of the vote: 1880, 1886. 1900 and 1931. I can't see if ever happening again.
 


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