[Misc] Zero hours contracts

[disgruntled h blocker]

Companies are simply getting around the stigma of Zero Hour Contracts by simply putting staff who are effectively full time on 3 hour/week contracts. Not ideal for anyone.

 

[Chicken Run]

I am talking of firms within the trades like the building trade where because they have no work they can say to a man we have no work today dont come in and obviously he doesnt get paid. If that happens 2 or 3 days in a week what is the worker supposed to do? This could even extend to other types of job such as garages etc.

If the contractor is clever he will have several ZHC’s with different firms and then chase the work!

 

[Chicken Run]

Works well for my lad, good money, flexible hours round his college work.

This

 

[dazzer6666]

Companies are simply getting around the stigma of Zero Hour Contracts by simply putting staff who are effectively full time on 3 hour/week contracts. Not ideal for anyone.

Stigma driven largely by people spouting bollocks ??

 

[disgruntled h blocker]

Stigma driven largely by people spouting bollocks ??

The reality is you might say that but I have spoken to a few people who work for a major UK based coffee franchise and they don't know from week-to-week how many hours they are doing because of the lottery system the franchise run for staff rotas. How is that fair? Or the reverse where you are working for a multinational fast food outlet where your offering of hours is reduced if you cannot start at 5am 5 days a week and then do the late shift the next week.

 

[beorhthelm]

The reality is you might say that but I have spoken to a few people who work for a major UK based coffee franchise and they don't know from week-to-week how many hours they are doing because of the lottery system the franchise run for staff rotas. How is that fair? Or the reverse where you are working for a multinational fast food outlet where your offering of hours is reduced if you cannot start at 5am 5 days a week and then do the late shift the next week.

you understand that the employment is handled by each individual franchise right? asking people to do 5am starts one week and late shift the next sounds a lot like a shift pattern, which is not something unique to zero hour jobs. the point is problems lie with employers using dodgy practice, not the concept of zero hours contracts, which is just a label to catch many different jobs and beat them with. as you say yourself, ban them and they'll be replaced by 1 hour contracts and the dodgy practice will continue.

 

[jaghebby]

I used to work in a local authority commissioning services such as home care and although the authority wanted to stipulate in its contracts with suppliers that zero hour contracts were phased out we found that lot of workers in that sector actually preferred zero hour contracts because it gave them the flexibility they needed. Most carers were women with families so the zero hours contract allowed them to pick and choose when they worked. So when people go on about abolishing zero hour contracts they really need to consider workers views so they can have a say as well.

 

[Napper]

vote tory , get tory

 

[Doc Lynam]

Zero hour contracts are not contracts, it’s just a way to put workers in a massively insecure position, where many invisible forces can be used to lean on them in favour of the people running it!

Weren’t zero hours a Tony Blair new labour thing to doctor the unemployment figures?

 

[disgruntled h blocker]

Zero hour contracts are not contracts, it’s just a way to put workers in a massively insecure position, where many invisible forces can be used to lean on them in favour of the people running it!

Weren’t zero hours a Tony Blair new labour thing to doctor the unemployment figures?

Remember, we have more-or-less FULL EMPLOYMENT at present. Forgetting the fact that might be a few hours a week below the threshold to lose your benefits just to keep the job centre off your back.

 

[dazzer6666]

Zero hour contracts are not contracts, it’s just a way to put workers in a massively insecure position, where many invisible forces can be used to lean on them in favour of the people running it!

Weren’t zero hours a Tony Blair new labour thing to doctor the unemployment figures?

No - but I think Blair promised (in 1995) to get rid of them, 13 years later he hadn't.

 

[sir albion]

Great recipe for making loads of businesses go bust but do carry on.

After reading this comment i'd say these companies should not be in business if they can't afford to employ full time staff.
I agree it should be abolished as many companies are abusing the system and it's all about what suits these companies.
We now live in a society where employees are just numbers and this is all to common when the population rises.

 

[dazzer6666]

After reading this comment i'd say these companies should not be in business if they can't afford to employ full time staff.
I agree it should be abolished as many companies are abusing the system and it's all about what suits these companies.
We now live in a society where employees are just numbers and this is all to common when the population rises.

How so ?
If they were abolished a lot of people wouldn't get any work
Developing businesses would never get off the ground
Seasonal/cyclical businesses wouldn't be able to operate, cope with demand fluctuation etc (I bet BHAFC - or their caterers and cleaners for example - have loads of people on ZHCs)
Millions of workers would lose the flexibility they currently have (ZHCs work both ways as several posters have indicated)

It's abuse of ZH contracts that needs to be stopped - used correctly they can suit both employer and employee. My firm has 300,000 staff - do you think I am anything more than a number ?? (And do I care ??)

 

[beorhthelm]

funny thing is our OP would have certainly employed people not just zero hours but without any contract, cash in hand in the pub trade, i bet he didn't have staffing for Saturday evening on wages all week long.

 

[BensGrandad]

You are all getting the wrong angle of this or misinterpreting my view. I am not talking of staff that are taken on for a specific need as in a pub who advertise for a barmaid who must be prepared to do Friday and Saturday but firms that employ somebody full time 5 days a week in what ever job and then turn around and say to the worker we have no work for you today or tomorrow. Consequently they receive no pay through no fault of theirs

 

[dazzer6666]

You are all getting the wrong angle of this or misinterpreting my view. I am not talking of staff that are taken on for a specific need as in a pub who advertise for a barmaid who must be prepared to do Friday and Saturday but firms that employ somebody full time 5 days a week in what ever job and then turn around and say to the worker we have no work for you today or tomorrow. Consequently they receive no pay through no fault of theirs

Here we go again.......it's everyone else

 

[looney]

Some people ike Zero hours contracts and some people are screwed over by them.

Its labour markets flooded with cheap labour that allows dodgy companies to get away with it, and by this I am talking the retail sector and others that never used to bother with ZH contracts.

Also agencies that have to recruit the staff but never let on its a ZH contracts who also benefit from a surplus supply of labour..

 

[WATFORD zero]

You are all getting the wrong angle of this or misinterpreting my view. I am not talking of staff that are taken on for a specific need as in a pub who advertise for a barmaid who must be prepared to do Friday and Saturday but firms that employ somebody full time 5 days a week in what ever job and then turn around and say to the worker we have no work for you today or tomorrow. Consequently they receive no pay through no fault of theirs

Looks to me that you have a similar view to Jeremy Corbyn on this

 

[thony]

I've grown up in a work environment where the expectation is that temporary / flexible staff (eg, via contract or agency staff) would necessarily need to be paid at a higher rate than permanent staff, so that they have the extra to cover for periods they might reasonably expect to not have any work (eg, between contracts, while sick or on holiday), as well as needing to cover additional expenses not usually incurred by permanent employees (eg, insurance, training, travel and accommodation on company business). These are not an issue for permanent staff, as they are covered by their employer's benefits.
To me, the zero-hours contract system is fine if the hourly rate is set appropriately to that, but is abused when the rate is no higher than that for permanent employees and no benefits are offered (eg, sickness and holiday). This may not be an issue for those treating the zero-hours contract as a second income, but can be a serious concern for those that can only find zero-hour contract jobs as their main or only source of income.

 

[8049]

My issue with ZH contracts are that they transfer the risk onto the individual who is probably has fewer resources to be able to cope - and almost certainly has little or no control over the decisions that determine whether the business is busy enough to need them. I can see that they are beneficial to a section of the workforce. I can also see that they help smaller companies stay afloat and therefore probably result in more work over the longer term (as the companies stay in business).
My two main gripes are 1) Massive companies like Amazon that could afford not to use ZH hours taking advantage and 2) it symbolic of the general shift away from companies viewing employees as part of a team where loyalty and obligations go both ways towards a scenario where employees are seen simply as disposable units of productivity rather than human beings. Granted, the time when that was the case was short (1950s -1980s?) and universal but I think it's something we as a society should be working towards rather than moving away from.