Zero hours contracts.

[Lord Bracknell]

"Turn up and wait to be sent home, without pay" contracts are the worst examples of zero-hours contracts. But how many firms use this system?

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

Zero-hour contracts are vital in the Hospitality industry, as then staff can work as needed basically and I have previous experience of working with people on these contracts from a hotel in London, most of the ones I know had other jobs and took up the extra hours when needed really.

Thing is, you know what you are signing up for when you sign the contract. You cant just sign it, then moan that you have no hours as you know exactly what you are going in for. They offer flexibility to employers and should only really be used for when you have other jobs (EG a current part-time job).

It isnt exploitation at all, if you dont want to risk not having any hours, dont bloody go for the job. If these contracts didnt exist, then "X hour contract" workers will be stretched to the limit at busy periods.

Hawk, consider that folk sign up to these things as they have often have little choice. That or nothing.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Casual work and zero hours are different. Let's get rid of the football analogy. Is a casual job at a football ground a 'zero hour contract'? The zero hour contract is based around being 'on call' not pre-planned work.

They are pretty much the same, you are asked to work certain hours - if you can, you can, if you cant you cant - almost like permanent overtime if you like.

No need to remove the "football analogy" as its a good example of how it works - mainly of course as Sodexo are advertising them as zero-hour contacts.

Hawk, consider that folk sign up to these things as they have often have little choice. That or nothing.

If you have little choice and you accept to do the work, you cant then moan about the condition that YOU signed up to.

"Turn up and wait to be sent home, without pay" contracts are the worst examples of zero-hours contracts. But how many firms use this system?

Not many id have thought as they are morally wrong, that and any good company would of course plan in advance.

 

[Doc Lynam]

Services are available to explain work contracts, but if they dont bother to get things clarified then to be honest its their own fault. Ive never heard of the "pay for training" side of it, but the contracts in my experience arent used for complicated skilled jobs and what you need to know gets taught over a short period. Again ive never heard of the "rent a property" side either, though that does sound fairly unbelievable.

Any responsible company should say (in the hotel example) "we do regularly need staff for functions, but hours cannot be guaranteed", if not then that is wrong. NO company would ever ask staff to work over 100 hours a week and the most I have heard of is 50, though that is optional. Some contracts will also have a "maximum" amount of hours too - possibly 38 for example. Different places work differently, but tips do add on a fair bit to wages, depending on the "class" of hotel you could even pretty much earn double the amount. From my experience, tips in cash go direct to that staff member but card tips get added to a "pot" and split between all staff including backroom (chefs for example).

Of course if zero-hour staff perform well, then they are much better placed to receive a full-time position should the job come up.

They arent all not English though, some of course are but a large number are English, possibly students or just people looking to earn a bit more money.

You can choose to believe me or not it doen't really bother me, but everything ive told you there i know has and does happen.

Thats a very harsh and fast statement to start with.

Paying for training isnt on complecated or skilled work its just putting a knife and folk down the agency claims a need to see if you for the fee of say £12 can match their standards. Again you pay for this because they promise lots of work at the other end.

I wont go into the property side because highly illegal.

This is usually said followed by "but don't worry because we are conected to plenty of hotels and there won't be any shortage of work. There always is due to the large amount on the books to start with.

Erm yes ive seen staff sleep on canteen sofas and floors and start morning shift with 3 hrs sleep or go to another hotel with no sleep. 50 hrs is reg broken by people who need to send money home. I met one young girl who's working all the hrs she can so her 2 older sisters can go to university back home. Honestly its heart breaking stuff! And the agency uses this knowledge so they can chuck them anywhere and they will work.

There are many hotels that don't run tips this way in fact most don't.

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

If you have little choice and you accept to do the work, you cant then moan about the condition that YOU signed up to.

Sounds like a quote from a Dickens novel...

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

You can choose to believe me or not it doen't really bother me, but everything ive told you there i know has and does happen.

Thats a very harsh and fast statement to start with.

Paying for training isnt on complecated or skilled work its just putting a knife and folk down the agency claims to need to see you can match their standards. Again you pay for this because they promise lots of work at the other end.

I wont go into the property side because highly illegal.

This is usually said followed by "but don't worry because we are conected to plenty of hotels and there won't be any shortage of work. There always is due to the large amount on the books to start with.

Erm yes ive seen staff sleep on canteen sofas and floors and start morning shift with 3 hrs sleep or go to another hotel with no sleep. 50 hrs is reg broken by people who need to send money home.

There are many hotels that don't run tips this way in fact most don't.

It may be harsh, but its the truth. If you agree to a contract which you sign, you cant then moan about the conditions. If you have concerns, then raise them with the employer.

The 50+ hours is wrong and would never be forced upon you, if it is then that company needs reporting. Even if you choose to do it, it shouldnt be allowed.

 

[Doc Lynam]

It may be harsh, but its the truth. If you agree to a contract which you sign, you cant then moan about the conditions. If you have concerns, then raise them with the employer.

The 50+ hours is wrong and would never be forced upon you, if it is then that company needs reporting. Even if you choose to do it, it shouldnt be allowed.

I do understand what your saying but it all comes down to the phone call will you get the hrs?
As soon as you refuse a shift here or there the phone goes dead. Question how much money you earn the phone goes dead. No one is in this case is doing anything illegal they are just using the fear of zero hrs a big stick to make you compliant. Yes they should know what they are entering into but most don't and thats the way zero hr agencies like it.

 

[Washie]

I'm in a zero hours contract and i'm enjoying it. However there comes a time in a month where you need some money, however, you get no work and it frustrates you, but you should know what you're getting into when you sign the contract.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

I do understand what your saying but it all comes down to the phone call will you get the hrs?
As soon as you refuse a shift here or there the phone goes dead. Question how much money you earn the phone goes dead. No one is in this case is doing anything illegal they are just using the fear of zero hrs a big stick to make you compliant. Yes they should know what they are entering into but most don't and thats the way zero hr agencies like it.

Of course, but ultimately that is what you let yourself in for - the risk of no hours. If your working hard and working well, your boss isnt going to treat you like crap for that, thats how they work as you choose the hours. Though if you refuse lots of hours then questions would be asked as that "slot" could be filled by someone who would happily work.

Id say the problem is that people dont look into much detail with the job they are applying for these days. They see it advertised and just apply without reading the job description, get an interview and then sign the contract without going through it in detail. Thats the issue really, if people know exactly what they will be doing and are happy to go along with it, then fine. If you just sign the contract and then arent happy with it, its your own hard luck. You should ALWAYS read your contract through.

An (albeit poor) example of this is for the TV show American Idol. It came out on Twitter yesterday that in the contract, it allows the production company to make up false/exaggerated rumours about you to give to the media, you wouldnt know about things like this if you dont read the contract !!

 

[Washie]

Of course, but ultimately that is what you let yourself in for - the risk of no hours. If your working hard and working well, your boss isnt going to treat you like crap for that, thats how they work as you choose the hours. Though if you refuse lots of hours then questions would be asked as that "slot" could be filled by someone who would happily work.

That's exactly right.

 

[Doc Lynam]

Of course, but ultimately that is what you let yourself in for - the risk of no hours. If your working hard and working well, your boss isnt going to treat you like crap for that, thats how they work as you choose the hours. Though if you refuse lots of hours then questions would be asked as that "slot" could be filled by someone who would happily work.

Id say the problem is that people dont look into much detail with the job they are applying for these days. They see it advertised and just apply without reading the job description, get an interview and then sign the contract without going through it in detail. Thats the issue really, if people know exactly what they will be doing and are happy to go along with it, then fine. If you just sign the contract and then arent happy with it, its your own hard luck. You should ALWAYS read your contract through.

An (albeit poor) example of this is for the TV show American Idol. It came out on Twitter yesterday that in the contract, it allows the production company to make up false/exaggerated rumours about you to give to the media, you wouldnt know about things like this if you dont read the contract !!

Again alot of what you are saying makes sense but your black and white views arent the reality for alot of people. Again i know one agency that if you fail to turn up to a shift for what ever reason your future earnings will be kept and deducted so they don't loose out on any money. Again these are foreign employees on zero hr contracts.