[Albion] You're the ref: Veltman v Rice

[Codner pharmaceuticals]

Arsenal fans are miffed because historically those kind of decisions go their way. My first reaction (and I was watching a replay knowing the score) was Velts would see red. Last few seasons that would have gone against us. So applause for the ref for actually applying the law/

 

[mothy]

The ball was moving. He had no intention of legitimately taking the free kick

Should have been a retaken free kick. No cards either way

 

[tronnogull]

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has been said before...

....but, Rice overreacted dramatically to the pretty mild kick from Joel. Perhaps if he had just walked away the ref wouldn't have had to speak with his lino and wouldn't have taken action against either of them.

 

[Oh_aye]

Should have been a retaken free kick. No cards either way

Right. A Sunday league ref would have told them both to just stop acting the twat.

 

[nickjhs]

Veltman did nothing wrong. If Rice had not kicked the ball away then Veltman would not have made contact with him. Red card all day long.

Sure Rice kicked the ball away, however, it looked to me that Veltman was aware of this and took full advantage to get in an annoyed kick.

 

[Zeberdi]

Pedro probably should have been booked. A lack of consistency is an issue but it’s not an excuse to trade off with leniency for the other side later in the match. Rice’s kicking the ball away was a letter of the law yellow - it is only really controversial and wound Arteta and the arselickers up so much because Rice was already on a yellow.

Time maybe to bring in blue cards and time out for 2 accumulated yellow cards and separate those infringements from a single more serious red card offence.

A second yellow red card is going to continue to be controversial as long as players are sent off for a second yellow card that might otherwise be a soft or marginal yellow - especially if an apparently similar ‘offence’ by the opposition did not receive a booking earlier in the same match.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

Having rewatched it a few times, this is top, top shithousery from Veltmen. Here is my forensic analysis. They were both having a go at each other in the play that lead up to it. Having been awarded the kick, Joel first gazes into the distance, pretending to see an opportunity for a quick kick and a fast break. In fact there are absolutely no yellow shirts ahead, but he knows the refs eyes are firmly on the incident. He taps the ball ahead then goes to play the ‘fake’ long kick to the imaginary yellow shirt with the imaginary break-away opportunity. His real aim is to blast the ball at Rice, to both inflict minor pain as payback for the previous incident, and possibly even to draw a second yellow for delaying the kick. Rice though is closer than he thought and, attempting shithousery of his own, nudges the ball away just as he’s about to kick it. Velman doesn’t see this as his head is up, still focussed on the imaginary yellow shirt ahead, and instead of whacking the ball into Rice, he instead wellies him firmly in the calf. We know the rest. Top drawer shithousery from Joel.

 

[American Seagle]

I don't see what the referee did wrong. It's only controversial and a talking point as it was against a big 6 team. If it was the other way around or in a game between two non big 6 teams it would not be mentioned or spoken about.

 

[Blue3]

I do like Veltman is all I am prepared to say on the matter 1-1 away to Arsenal very happy

 

[Bring back Bryan wade!!]

‘ I was amazed," said Arteta. "Amazed, amazed, amazed because of how inconsistent decisions can be. In the first half, there are two incidents and nothing happens.

"Then, in a non-critical area, the ball hits Declan [on the back of his leg], he turns around, he doesn't see the player coming and he touches the ball.’

Arteta truly embarrassing himself with the above quote… ‘he doesn’t see the player coming and he touches the ball’ Rice knew exactly what he was doing it was a calculated flick of the ball away. Everyone could see that.

 

[Bring back Bryan wade!!]

As an Albion supporter it increased our chances of getting something from game so pleased Rice went of. But sorry can hardley call that an attempt to delay a freekick.

Eh? Of course that’s exactly what it was.

 

[BadFish]

These incidents really flush out the social media posters who don't understand the laws of the game

 

[nickjhs]

As an Albion supporter it increased our chances of getting something from game so pleased Rice went of. But sorry can hardley call that an attempt to delay a freekick.

When you look at the speed the game is played at this level a delay of a few seconds can mean the difference between a defense being caught out or not. So absolutely it was a delaying tactic.
Regarding the whole incident I am not for Rice being sent off, but those are the rules two yellow cards (both deserved) = Red Card. What I am more surprised about is Veltman getting away with what I see as a deliberate kick against Rice, the way I see it he was well aware that the ball had moved and kicked Rice in annoyance, obviously disguised as an attempt to take the free kick. Hopefully he gets a bollocking for it.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Sure Rice kicked the ball away, however, it looked to me that Veltman was aware of this and took full advantage to get in an annoyed kick.

Veltman knew exactly what he was doing.
He saw an opportunity to give the ref a decision to make, by taking a quick free kick (when there was no advantage to do so)

Rice also knew exactly what he was doing by preventing a quick freekick (with absolutely no advantage of doing so).
Stupid (or possibly arrogant) thing to do when you're on a yellow.

Arsenal fans (and a few closet ones are showing themselves on this thread I feel) are annoyed because they know their hero was stupid.

If one of ours had done it, we would be railing against him, not the ref.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I don't see what the referee did wrong. It's only controversial and a talking point as it was against a big 6 team. If it was the other way around or in a game between two non big 6 teams it would not be mentioned or spoken about.

THIS!!

the match of the day comment would just have been "Stupid from the non-Big 6 player. Don't give the ref a decision to make."

 

[nickjhs]

Veltman knew exactly what he was doing.
He saw an opportunity to give the ref a decision to make, by taking a quick free kick (when there was no advantage to do so)

Rice also knew exactly what he was doing by preventing a quick freekick (with absolutely no advantage of doing so).
Stupid (or possibly arrogant) thing to do when you're on a yellow.

Arsenal fans (and a few closet ones are showing themselves on this thread I feel) are annoyed because they know their hero was stupid.

If one of ours had done it, we would be railing against him, not the ref.

I agree Rice deserved the yellow and therefore the Red. But do you believe Veltman had no intention to kick rice?

 

[American Seagle]

‘ I was amazed," said Arteta. "Amazed, amazed, amazed because of how inconsistent decisions can be. In the first half, there are two incidents and nothing happens.

"Then, in a non-critical area, the ball hits Declan [on the back of his leg], he turns around, he doesn't see the player coming and he touches the ball.’

Arteta truly embarrassing himself with the above quote… ‘he doesn’t see the player coming and he touches the ball’ Rice knew exactly what he was doing it was a calculated flick of the ball away. Everyone could see that.

Arteta also knows exactly what he is doing: make comments about how controversial and inconsistent the decision was to put pressure on the officials. That way it increases the likelihood that they will get desicaions their way in the future.
Pathetic really.

 

[American Seagle]

I agree Rice deserved the yellow and therefore the Red. But do you believe Veltman had no intention to kick rice?

Veltman absolutely intended to. The "amazing" thing, to use Arteta's words, is that the big 6 team didn't get the decision their way and have Veltman sent off. Instead the laws of the game were applied correctly.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I agree Rice deserved the yellow and therefore the Red. But do you believe Veltman had no intention to kick rice?

No I think he had the intention to kick the ball at Rice, but the ball wasn't there.
I doubt he premeditated, that his follow through would mean he could get a way with kicking Rice.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Which law did he break?

In Black & white?

FWLIW there were far too many marginal greys the whole game, I thought the ref played it well, it was a shithouse game in many respects . . . It may have been better for us, it could have been a whole lot worse.

My understanding was that kicking the ball away in the way he did would be seen as dissent. But they may have updated this.