[Albion] You're the ref: Veltman v Rice

[lawros left foot]

The PL and PGMOL must really, really hate Arsenal.

They are now the first team ever to have to wear their away kit, for an away game.

To be fair, it’s not really a kit clash, is it.

 

[Van Cleef]

Did he injure his knicky knacky knoo?

No. Knicky knacky knoo is tickety boo.

 

[aolstudios]

McCoist, Agbonlahor & Gary bloody Lineker still banging on today, ffs

 

[oldboyroy]

McCoist, Agbonlahor & Gary bloody Lineker still banging on today, ffs

Add Jim White and Danny Murphy too but, in all fairness agreeing with the decision yesterday that it was correct

 

[The Fifth Column]

Are we going to have weeks of Mandem and Fam whining for weeks at a time after every red card this season? Seems so.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Was Pedro trying to keep the ball in play? - Debatable(Probably not IMO)/Irrelevant

Could Pedro have got a yellow? - Debatable/Irrelevant

Would it have been for delaying/interfering with a restart? - No

Was the ball out of play? - Yes

Could Arsenal have restarted the game at any time regardless of Pedro’s actions? - Yes

Are the two incidents the same/inconsistent? - No

Just for the record (to clear up one of the sub topics out of all this), Howard Webb confirmed Pedro should have been booked. He also confirmed (as we all know), that Rice was correct to be booked:

"It’s a different type of scenario, it sits in the same kind of booking around delaying the restart. Of course, he (J.Pedro) should have been cautioned here.

‘The officials on the field gave him too much benefit of the doubt, feeling that the actions weren’t really impactful because they felt that the Arsenal players weren’t ready to take that throw-in, they were a little bit distance away from the ball, and Veltman [with Rice] was right there.

‘I think when we look at this it’s quite clear that the actions of Pedro do have an impact, they do delay Arsenal’s ability to restart and, yes, that should have been a yellow card.

‘We’ve certainly messaged that back to the officials. We want to be consistent with our application of these types of disciplinary sanctions, we’ve committed to dealing with players who delay the restart.

‘Not every touch of the ball after the whistle is going to be a yellow card. You’ve got to look at what the intentions of the player were, what the impact of the player’s actions were. It might be that there’s absolutely no impact at all and therefore we’re not going to show a yellow card. But situations where we see that impact – and there was one with Pedro – we should be seeing the yellow card and that’s the feedback we’ve given to the officials.’

I know a lot of people said the ball being out of play meant it didn't count as kicking it away.

Not looking to restart the worn out debate btw! Just interesting to clear up the above point. Obviously makes no different to anything.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Just for the record (to clear up one of the sub topics out of all this), Howard Webb confirmed Pedro should have been booked. He also confirmed (as we all know), that Rice was correct to be booked:

"It’s a different type of scenario, it sits in the same kind of booking around delaying the restart. Of course, he (J.Pedro) should have been cautioned here.

‘The officials on the field gave him too much benefit of the doubt, feeling that the actions weren’t really impactful because they felt that the Arsenal players weren’t ready to take that throw-in, they were a little bit distance away from the ball, and Veltman [with Rice] was right there.

‘I think when we look at this it’s quite clear that the actions of Pedro do have an impact, they do delay Arsenal’s ability to restart and, yes, that should have been a yellow card.

‘We’ve certainly messaged that back to the officials. We want to be consistent with our application of these types of disciplinary sanctions, we’ve committed to dealing with players who delay the restart.

‘Not every touch of the ball after the whistle is going to be a yellow card. You’ve got to look at what the intentions of the player were, what the impact of the player’s actions were. It might be that there’s absolutely no impact at all and therefore we’re not going to show a yellow card. But situations where we see that impact – and there was one with Pedro – we should be seeing the yellow card and that’s the feedback we’ve given to the officials.’

I know a lot of people said the ball being out of play meant it didn't count as kicking it away.

Not looking to restart the worn out debate btw! Just interesting to clear up the above point. Obviously makes no different to anything.

The bookable offence is delaying the restart. When a free kick is given and the ball is on the pitch, kicking that ball away delays the restart so Rice was booked. But when the ball is off the pitch, the ball to be used for the restart would have been one of the balls already at the side of the pitch, so kicking the original ball away does not delay the restart so Pedro should not have been booked.

Also, as the whistle had not gone, perhaps Pedro thought the ball was still in play, another reason for not booking him.

 

[drew]

The bookable offence is delaying the restart. When a free kick is given and the ball is on the pitch, kicking that ball away delays the restart so Rice was booked. But when the ball is off the pitch, the ball to be used for the restart would have been one of the balls already at the side of the pitch, so kicking the original ball away does not delay the restart so Pedro should not have been booked.

Also, as the whistle had not gone, perhaps Pedro thought the ball was still in play, another reason for not booking him.

Of course he has delayed the restart. He has kicked a ball that was off the pitch back on to it so if an Arsenal player grabbed a ball from the side they wouldn't be able to take a throw until the ball Pedro kicked was off the pitch. The ref made a mistake, to our advantage, and just highlights one of the issues with officials in that they are inconsistent.

 

[Han Solo]

The bookable offence is delaying the restart. When a free kick is given and the ball is on the pitch, kicking that ball away delays the restart so Rice was booked. But when the ball is off the pitch, the ball to be used for the restart would have been one of the balls already at the side of the pitch, so kicking the original ball away does not delay the restart so Pedro should not have been booked.

Also, as the whistle had not gone, perhaps Pedro thought the ball was still in play, another reason for not booking him.

All horseshit. Of course he should have had a yellow card and everyone would have agreed with that if he wasn't one of ours.

 

[Nigella's Cream Pie]

Just for the record (to clear up one of the sub topics out of all this), Howard Webb confirmed Pedro should have been booked. He also confirmed (as we all know), that Rice was correct to be booked:

"It’s a different type of scenario, it sits in the same kind of booking around delaying the restart. Of course, he (J.Pedro) should have been cautioned here.

‘The officials on the field gave him too much benefit of the doubt, feeling that the actions weren’t really impactful because they felt that the Arsenal players weren’t ready to take that throw-in, they were a little bit distance away from the ball, and Veltman [with Rice] was right there.

‘I think when we look at this it’s quite clear that the actions of Pedro do have an impact, they do delay Arsenal’s ability to restart and, yes, that should have been a yellow card.

‘We’ve certainly messaged that back to the officials. We want to be consistent with our application of these types of disciplinary sanctions, we’ve committed to dealing with players who delay the restart.

‘Not every touch of the ball after the whistle is going to be a yellow card. You’ve got to look at what the intentions of the player were, what the impact of the player’s actions were. It might be that there’s absolutely no impact at all and therefore we’re not going to show a yellow card. But situations where we see that impact – and there was one with Pedro – we should be seeing the yellow card and that’s the feedback we’ve given to the officials.’

I know a lot of people said the ball being out of play meant it didn't count as kicking it away.

Not looking to restart the worn out debate btw! Just interesting to clear up the above point. Obviously makes no different to anything.

Full conversation, analysis, video, etc.:
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...ball-away-rule-as-he-sent-him-off-vs-brighton

 

[oldboyroy]

I can't believe that 2 and a half weeks later it's still making airways and discussion! Had this been the other way round (1 of ours sent off), it would've been brushed aside long ago.