[Albion] You're the ref: Veltman v Rice

[Machiavelli]

The ball was moving. He had no intention of legitimately taking the free kick

The ball was moving ...
... and that's the added comedy value of the whole incident

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Anyway, it’s a difference of opinion. I get why the decision was made, but I don’t agree with it, and it leaves far too much to interpretation. And it could lead to a lot of games being turned by innocuous things like this.

“an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play.”

Above is the wording of the new law. Rice not only moves into Veltman’s path, he also nudged the ball out of Veltman’s way. He deliberately prevented the free kick being taken quickly; there is nothing to debate.

 

[Seagull58]

Ahhh that makes sense, what a shame the at the ex pro footballers on TNT didn’t know the multi ball throw in rule

The ex-Arsenal player.

 

[Seagull58]

I did feel like Veltman absolutely knew the ball wasn't there and he was going to kick Rice before he even began to swing his foot.

He had his hands out in the universal "hey ref!" gesture before his foot left the ground.

That's not what I saw, and I've seen it many times already. Veltman clearly swung at the ball as Rice toe-ended it away.

 

[Seagull58]

TNT showed one replay where they seemed to have the pitchside mic volume boosted and I heard the same.

I think it was very possibly Welbeck, as he certainly seemed to be expecting, and then agreeing with, the yellow.

It was Welbeck. One angle shows him saying "it's a second yellow".

 

[maffew]

Personally I don't think he should have been booked from tapping a free kick taken from a ball that was still moving, otherwise obviously def yellow. Would have booked him for taking a dive though after it, so off anyway

 

[Seagull58]

Pretty sure the results of this poll would / will be markedly different if / when a proper vid of the incident becomes available

I've seen it at least a dozen times from different angles. What I see is Veltman looking down the pitch and aiming to kick it long into the right channel for Welbeck or Pedro. As he swings his foot Rice toe-ends the ball away and Veltman accidently connects with Rice. If Rice had not kicked the ball away it would not have hit him as he was to the side of where Joel was aiming. We know Joel is a shithousing black belt but that's what I saw.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I've seen it at least a dozen times from different angles. What I see is Veltman looking down the pitch and aiming to kick it long into the right channel for Welbeck or Pedro. As he swings his foot Rice toe-ends the ball away and Veltman accidently connects with Rice. If Rice had not kicked the ball away it would not have hit him as he was to the side of where Joel was aiming. We know Joel is a shithousing black belt but that's what I saw.

I take it you missed Veltman deliberately rolling the ball on to Rice's heel to trigger the subsequent chain of events?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I'd be absolutely fuming if that was against us.We were on course to lose to nil and then caught a wonderfully lucky break. Surprised refs don't know what a - wonderful - shithouse Veltman is.

In answer to the question, no yellow to either if I was reffing. That said, I let a kid off last season for picked the ball up in the penalty area. He wasn't a keeper.

 

[Braggfan]

Ironically Rice going down like a sack of s*** drew the refs attention to the incident. And as he kicked the ball away first, that's what the ref responded to. If he had stood up and walked away, the ref might have ignored it all.

 

[Seagull58]

Just seen it properly. If that had happened to us we’d be absolutely fuming. Velts has tried to take a free kick from a moving ball so how can someone be penalised from blocking an illegal restart?

He didntblock an illegal restart. He kicked the ball away to prevent the restart, illegal or not.

 

[Seagull58]

I take it you missed Veltman deliberately rolling the ball on to Rice's heel to trigger the subsequent chain of events?

I didn't notice that but Rice still kicked the ball away when Veltman swung his foot at it.

 

[Happy Exile]

We’d be seething had that been the other way round let’s be honest.

I’m sure early last season Gross got booked at Wolves for kicking the ball away to delay a free kick. I don’t remember us seething on the day but definitely the fact it stopped being applied within a couple of games caused some perturbance!

 

[Arthritic Toe]

Ref got it right technically. 9 times out of 10 though, he wouldn’t have got a 2nd yellow for that, so we are lucky it went for us. Saka in his interview afterwards pointed out that JP had kicked the ball away far more blatantly a few minutes earlier and should have got a yellow, which is hard to argue with.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I’m sure early last season Gross got booked at Wolves for kicking the ball away to delay a free kick. I don’t remember us seething on the day but definitely the fact it stopped being applied within a couple of games caused some perturbance!

He booked everyone that day for kicking the ball away.

Never seen the law applied that way before or since.

 

[Bodian]

“an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play.”

Above is the wording of the new law. Rice not only moves into Veltman’s path, he also nudged the ball out of Veltman’s way. He deliberately prevented the free kick being taken quickly; there is nothing to debate.

And there doesn't appear to be anything similar in Law 15 re throw-ins. So, the argument re Pedro falls down - as kicking the ball away then is more like unsporting behaviour - not an actual written down offence. And therefore discretionary.

 

[Seagull58]

I take it you missed Veltman deliberately rolling the ball on to Rice's heel to trigger the subsequent chain of events?

I've watched it again and, yes, Veltman knocks the ball forward a couple of yards onto Rice's heel and then, as he move forward to kick it long, Rice knocks it away. It still looks like an accidental kick on Rice by Veltman due to Rice knocking the ball away as he swings his foot.

 

[Bodian]

Ref got it right technically. 9 times out of 10 though, he wouldn’t have got a 2nd yellow for that, so we are lucky it went for us. Saka in his interview afterwards pointed out that JP had kicked the ball away far more blatantly a few minutes earlier and should have got a yellow, which is hard to argue with.

See a couple of posts above. Not a specific offence.

 

[METALMICKY]

Glenn Murray just said he thought Veltman knew what he was doing and the ref shouldn’t have booked Rice as he only knocked the ball a couple of yards.

It was on Final Score for reference.

Sorry Glen but both irrelevant observations. Too few pundits simply offering the opinion that Rice is to blame for his card. If he stays away he avoids the temptation of the silly little flick of the ball. He also avoids Veltman's original plan of whacking the ball at him to get the second yellow. In that second scenario as other posters have observed the ref would have just told them to get on with and no cards for anyone.

The fact that Veltman kicks Rice's foot is a complete red herring and farcical that Arteta demanded a red.

Bleating about the Pedro incident in first half is a classic case of ' Whataboutery '. Even he had booked him that would have effectively endorsed the later Rice decision. And instead of going bonkers on the bench maybe Arteta should be asking why one of his players with the new multi ball set up didn't try to get the ball moving from near where the ball went out.

Some of the punditry was tinged shocking big club bias. And enough said for Keown who was an utter cock!

 

[Eeyore]

I just think it was ref bias for Brighton because they are a top two side.