WW II could we have won without the Muslims?

[portlock seagull]

In the end, WW II victory was a bit of a team effort really.

Are you as history teacher?!

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Whereas all this is true, my original point was that at the time of Dunkirk - which was before Germany started to head east towards Russia - they had sufficient impetus, eqipment and access to oil and fuel in western europe to embark on invading the UK.
In the longer term, Germany's inability to secure the oil fields in south/east europe and middle east was a significant factor in their ultimate defeat.

Not quite correct regarding oil. Germany struggled throughout the conflict to get enough for their needs. Romanian oil, their main source wasn't completely under their control until after the Fall of France when the Romanians lost their French ally and Carol II abdicated in favour of the pro German Marshall Antonescu. Up to that point only 40% of production was going to Germany.

 

[portlock seagull]

Not quite correct regarding oil. Germany struggled throughout the conflict to get enough for their needs. Romanian oil, their main source wasn't completely under their control until after the Fall of France when the Romanians lost their French ally and Carol II abdicated in favour of the pro German Marshall Antonescu. Up to that point only 40% of production was going to Germany.

Yes. And his point was that in 1940 it wasn't as critical as it was once Russia had been invaded. And that much is certainly true.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Yes. And his point was that in 1940 it wasn't as critical as it was once Russia had been invaded. And that much is certainly true.

That - and Roumania isn't in western Europe.

Anyway - now that between us we've set the history books right and explained WW2, what shall we address next - how about Rocket Science?

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Yes. And his point was that in 1940 it wasn't as critical as it was once Russia had been invaded. And that much is certainly true.

Yes by the end of the war the oil situation was critical but at the beginning it was still problematic and would have influenced planners regarding the possible invasion of Britain. My point being they never had enough then and did not have the means to transport it over in sufficient quantities if they did.

That - and Roumania isn't in western Europe.

Western Europe did not produce any oil whatsoever, Rumania was the biggest producer in Europe outside of the Soviet Union. When the Germans invaded Western Europe they literally cut off all the supplies of oil to those countries who then had to rely on the occupying Germans to provide any industries who needed supplying. Any stockpiles within these countries would only give a short term supply which would soon run out and once more force the Germans to rely on Rumania and whatever they could trade with the Soviet Union prior to the 1941 invasion.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

In the end, WW II victory was a bit of a team effort really.

Are you as history teacher?!

Yes - Well done you!

 

[portlock seagull]

Yes by the end of the war the oil situation was critical but at the beginning it was still problematic and would have influenced planners regarding the possible invasion of Britain. My point being they never had enough then and did not have the means to transport it over in sufficient quantities if they did.



Western Europe did not produce any oil whatsoever, Rumania was the biggest producer in Europe outside of the Soviet Union. When the Germans invaded Western Europe they literally cut off all the supplies of oil to those countries who then had to rely on the occupying Germans to provide any industries who needed supplying. Any stockpiles within these countries would only give a short term supply which would soon run out and once more force the Germans to rely on Rumania and whatever they could trade with the Soviet Union prior to the 1941 invasion.

One could argue that it was problematic for every country once war was declared, as it would. Semantics really. Oil provision had no more bearing on the decision to invade Britain than any other country, and far less than many more factors. But yes, oil supply/demand was a constant thorn in Germany's side 39-45

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I understand Germany had at least one manufacturing plant turning coal mined in Germany in to oil. The company who did this was IB Farben !!!


They did need loads and this synthetic oil probably was not enough so they needed crude from elsewhere also