Wolves in for Ashley Barnes

[Sam-]

The value of a player is obviously dependant on how good he is. BUT another large factor is how long a contract he has with his current club.
For example, Torres had 3 or 4 years left at Liverpool, hence the ridiculous £50m price tag. Van Persie is entering his last year so is only £20mil.
Fletcher has about 2-3 years left I believe so thats whats lead to the valuation of 15 mil.
Barnes in his last year . . . possibly not worth as much as we hope.

N.B. Podolski was in his last year at a club that got relegated and were in financial dificulty so he was a bargain IMO.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't need to get over where we were when Gus took over at all. It's a FACT, not my opinion.

So let me just get this straight. You believe, that with the squad of players we had, we SHOULD have at very least made the play-offs and according to you, won them, yes? (Based on your underachieving quote). Despite the FACT that last season, only 1 player in the entire squad (Vicente) has played regularly in any top division in Europe, and he didn't even play much until towards the end of the season.

Even now, we still only are going to have 4 players in the squad who have played regularly in a top division and Kuszcak and Saltor playing REGULARLY is stretching it. So, enlighten me, where is this squad underachieving exactly?

I couldn't have put it better myself. Poyet has said he needed better quality players to play his system and has gone about it this summer with his signings. He wants better and is trying to get it.

 

[Mr Burns]

I don't need to get over where we were when Gus took over at all. It's a FACT, not my opinion.

So let me just get this straight. You believe, that with the squad of players we had, we SHOULD have at very least made the play-offs and according to you, won them, yes? (Based on your underachieving quote). Despite the FACT that last season, only 1 player in the entire squad (Vicente) has played regularly in any top division in Europe, and he didn't even play much until towards the end of the season.

Even now, we still only are going to have 4 players in the squad who have played regularly in a top division and Kuszcak and Saltor playing REGULARLY is stretching it. So, enlighten me, where is this squad underachieving exactly?

I believe, the position we were in, that we should have made the play offs. The run of one win in ten, is in my opinion, what cost us said play off place. I did not say we should or would have won them - you added that bit - but we should have made them after the position we were in.

IMO the reason we didn't is because the team went out in too many games, West Ham being the classic example, and did not have a clue how what they were meant to be doing. West Ham had done there homework, and frankly lets be honest, we were very very lucky the records books were not rewritten that day. 6-0 flattered us. 10-0 would have been a fair result to West Ham Are we 6-0 worse than West Ham. No chance. Game after game at the end of the season, the Poyets plan did not work, but he refused to change it.

Do I think hes a shit manager. Course not, after all he's put us in this position.

Do I think hes the great manager people on here think he is. No. Absolutely not. People say players find there level, well unfortauntely based on last season I think Gus has found his.

Do I think he could go on to be our greatest manager ever. Yes. But he has to be willing to change the system to match the squad he has, and if he does this, then IMO he will go on to great things. If he continues to stick with a system more suited to a squad of Manchester City or United ability, then I think he will struggle and we will struggle, and if people think a great manager is one who sticks to his guns and doesn't get wins , despite having built a squad capable of competeing, then I'll disagree with them. Its as if Poyet is sticking to this system, to show the big clubs what he can do, and how his system works. The fact he doesn't have the players to play it, is probably doing his chances of getting a top job much more harm than good.

Poyet is potentiaily an all time great.

Unfortunetly I worry that that will never be fulfilled, due to his unwillingness to adapt.

But if he sticks to his guns, and we open the season as we ended the last one with one win in ten, then I think he'll be shown the door. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

 

[Mr Burns]

I would be. Why? Well, ok answer this and maybe you will understand: exactly how can you get an entire football club to play with an identity and educate both the 1st team and all the youth players to play with that identity from a young age so that they slot seamlessly into the first team when they mature if you keep chopping and changing the system?
You see to change the system and style of play every week or so may squeeze out the odd few extra points now but will damage us in the long run.

I can't really ague with that, because basically you are saying, stick with a system that doesn't work, so long as the whole club understands it. I

So if you will be happy with 8 points out of ten, and it seems a long term plan as you put it, I take it then you will be happy if that goes thoughout the season, so long as the long term system is rooted in the club.

If you are happy with that, you will probably be the only person on here that will be happy to see us relagated come May then, because getting 8 pts out of every 10 games, will be easily form to take us back down.

Really?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

.

Do I think hes a shit manager. Course not, after all he's put us in this position.

Do I think hes the great manager people on here think he is. No. Absolutely not. People say players find there level, well unfortauntely based on last season I think Gus has found his.

Do I think he could go on to be our greatest manager ever. Yes. But he has to be willing to change the system to match the squad he has, and if he does this, then IMO he will go on to great things. If he continues to stick with a system more suited to a squad of Manchester City or United ability, then I think he will struggle and we will struggle, and if people think a great manager is one who sticks to his guns and doesn't get wins , despite having built a squad capable of competeing, then I'll disagree with them. Its as if Poyet is sticking to this system, to show the big clubs what he can do, and how his system works. The fact he doesn't have the players to play it, is probably doing his chances of getting a top job much more harm than good.

Poyet is potentiaily an all time great.

Unfortunetly I worry that that will never be fulfilled, due to his unwillingness to adapt.

But if he sticks to his guns, and we open the season as we ended the last one with one win in ten, then I think he'll be shown the door. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

We beat 2 Premiership teams last season in the cups and gave Villa a good run for their money 2 years ago. As I said before you MO is to concentrate on the negative and then use to back your flawed opinions (imo deliberately) You could pick any manager and do exactly the same.

 

[Seagull73]

I believe, the position we were in, that we should have made the play offs. The run of one win in ten, is in my opinion, what cost us said play off place. I did not say we should or would have won them - you added that bit - but we should have made them after the position we were in.

IMO the reason we didn't is because the team went out in too many games, West Ham being the classic example, and did not have a clue how what they were meant to be doing. West Ham had done there homework, and frankly lets be honest, we were very very lucky the records books were not rewritten that day. 6-0 flattered us. 10-0 would have been a fair result to West Ham Are we 6-0 worse than West Ham. No chance. Game after game at the end of the season, the Poyets plan did not work, but he refused to change it.

Do I think hes a shit manager. Course not, after all he's put us in this position.

Do I think hes the great manager people on here think he is. No. Absolutely not. People say players find there level, well unfortauntely based on last season I think Gus has found his.

Do I think he could go on to be our greatest manager ever. Yes. But he has to be willing to change the system to match the squad he has, and if he does this, then IMO he will go on to great things. If he continues to stick with a system more suited to a squad of Manchester City or United ability, then I think he will struggle and we will struggle, and if people think a great manager is one who sticks to his guns and doesn't get wins , despite having built a squad capable of competeing, then I'll disagree with them. Its as if Poyet is sticking to this system, to show the big clubs what he can do, and how his system works. The fact he doesn't have the players to play it, is probably doing his chances of getting a top job much more harm than good.

Poyet is potentiaily an all time great.

Unfortunetly I worry that that will never be fulfilled, due to his unwillingness to adapt.

But if he sticks to his guns, and we open the season as we ended the last one with one win in ten, then I think he'll be shown the door. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

You still haven't answered where you believe the squad is underachieving, so I'll ask again.

In addition, where do you get this notion that the system 'is not working?' We finished 10th - 10th last season, our highest position for 21 years. Yes we went on a crap run towards the end of the season where we blew what chance we had of the play-offs. How about we had massively over-acheived up until that point, and ran out of gas? I don't suppose you were moaning during our good run in January and February, and it was exactly the same system. How come the system worked during that period and not after? I'll tell you how, players, not the manager. As the old saying goes, form is temporary, class is permanent, and frankly our squad lacks the class to go and run away with this division - even now, and I suspect even after we get this long-desired centre-forward.

The system does work, as was proved in League One, and it's no different now, it's making sure we have the players to sustain it in probably the most competitive 2nd tier in Europe, and I daresay more competitive than most top divisions.

 

[Acker79]

Taking a selection of our results and giving them meaning, is as substantive as using stats to prove a striker is good enough.


The system we used gave us a great run, a poor run a small great run, a small terrible run, a great run, a middling run, and a poor run.

The system we used isn't flawless, but whose system is? There is no perfect footballing system.

Gus is playing a long game, and I support that. The long game is to develop a squad that can play his system well enough so that the times it doesn't work are less frequent, and that when those occasions arise, they have learned how to deal with it. That comes from experience; experience for Gus and experience for his players, and it comes from improved players.

Anyone who thinks the players and gus haven't learned from, what is for most of them, their first season at this level is either naive or deliberately ignorant.

To write off the system because of a poor run is folly, as is writing off gus because he refused to change his system. Especially when that run of ten games involved matches with promotion and play off chasing teams with premier league quality/experienced players, and our team was a league one team of players who were being given an extra year as a reward for their success at the lower level.

Take the season as a whole, and the system we played allowed a team of league one relegation favourites to storm league one, it allowed largely that same team to get a 10th place finish in the championship with recent premier league teams such as west ham, reading, blackpool, middlesbrough, birmingham, and burnley.

To dismiss the system because a poor run is as short sighted as saying a player had a great game just because he scored a goal.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

s

I can see what you were trying to do, but why not search for a picture with more than one barn? Or, I don't know, not bother?

 

[Iamapen15]

There might well be some legs in this.... although I think it would take a considerably offer to land Barnes... it would be interesting to know whether Barnes would consider a move to Wolves!

 

[somerset]

Absolutely NO chance.

Hey,... I know it doesn't sit snugly with the NSC 'inner sanctum' ... but I like to give a view .... radical I know ... but what the hey.

 

[pornomagboy]

A self confessed drug dealer with a username like yours, maybe you should take your own advice. Sad excuse for a human being

Jog on you twat as if I am a drug dealer and then stick it on a public forum, and for someone like you to call me sad when all you do is slag of the players

 

[JBizzle]

Taking a selection of our results and giving them meaning, is as substantive as using stats to prove a striker is good enough.


The system we used gave us a great run, a poor run a small great run, a small terrible run, a great run, a middling run, and a poor run.

The system we used isn't flawless, but whose system is? There is no perfect footballing system.

Gus is playing a long game, and I support that. The long game is to develop a squad that can play his system well enough so that the times it doesn't work are less frequent, and that when those occasions arise, they have learned how to deal with it. That comes from experience; experience for Gus and experience for his players, and it comes from improved players.

Anyone who thinks the players and gus haven't learned from, what is for most of them, their first season at this level is either naive or deliberately ignorant.

To write off the system because of a poor run is folly, as is writing off gus because he refused to change his system. Especially when that run of ten games involved matches with promotion and play off chasing teams with premier league quality/experienced players, and our team was a league one team of players who were being given an extra year as a reward for their success at the lower level.

Take the season as a whole, and the system we played allowed a team of league one relegation favourites to storm league one, it allowed largely that same team to get a 10th place finish in the championship with recent premier league teams such as west ham, reading, blackpool, middlesbrough, birmingham, and burnley.

To dismiss the system because a poor run is as short sighted as saying a player had a great game just because he scored a goal.

Also, lets take into account the fact that Hull, Burnley, Watford, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Blackpool, West Ham and Reading ALL have a minimum of 60% of their players with top flight experience. Thats also taking out of the equation: Cardiff, Watford, Derby, Leicester and Leeds. To all intents and purposes, we should have finished below all of the above. You could argue its our system thet meant that instead of 14th, we finished a creditable 10th.

 

[somerset]

Go on then, argue that.

Done...... thanks for the advice.

 

[JBizzle]

Hey,... I know it doesn't sit snugly with the NSC 'inner sanctum' ... but I like to give a view .... radical I know ... but what the hey.

You are entitiled to your opinion, but based on 14 goals, 23 years old, a minimum of 1 year on his contract, everpresent in a top half side. I would be disgusted it we accepted £500k for Barnes. Bearing in mind we dismissed £1m+ for Noone who, in my opinion, contributed considerably less than Barnes and has a similar contract length, I just can't see such a low fee.

This is my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

 

[southstandg]

You are entitiled to your opinion, but based on 14 goals, 23 years old, a minimum of 1 year on his contract, everpresent in a top half side. I would be disgusted it we accepted £500k for Barnes. Bearing in mind we dismissed £1m+ for Noone who, in my opinion, contributed considerably less than Barnes and has a similar contract length, I just can't see such a low fee.

This is my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

I agree here.

 

[kevtherev]

Well a negative, that causes a run of one win in ten during a promtion charge, a run of results that in most cases would see a manager sacked, and a run of results that happened twice in the same season, I would say its a fairly important thing to concentrate on. Poyet is not the messiah people think he is. Hopefully he will take advise on those close to him, and have a plan B and more importantly use it from time to time. But if he carries over his stubborness and one track mind into the new season, and teams work out how to beat the system as they did last year, then I think its fairly safe to say we'll have a new manager by bonfire night.

If he learns to play to the squads strength, and not try and prove a system works with a squad of players not capable of it, he could well become the messiah.

This....How quickly view will change if we start the season like we finished the last one. 6 points after 14 games, imagine it...That's Martin Hinshelwood stats, without the Amex, the wage bill and the transfer money that has been and is yet to be spent.....I don't for one minute think this will happen but it's not impossible, nobody gives you nothing in this league. Also think it might be a good idea for Gus and his side to brush up on the fair play side of things as well. I'm sure towards the end of last season, referees saw they were in charge of Brighton's game and went out and bought a new pencil.....

 

[somerset]

You are entitiled to your opinion, but based on 14 goals, 23 years old, a minimum of 1 year on his contract, everpresent in a top half side. I would be disgusted it we accepted £500k for Barnes. Bearing in mind we dismissed £1m+ for Noone who, in my opinion, contributed considerably less than Barnes and has a similar contract length, I just can't see such a low fee.

This is my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

Look I am tired of getting slated for not feeling the Barnes vibe like some of you..... I am not a flamin novice here, plus supporting since 1977 gives me as much ability to gauge a player as anyone on here..... so, for the last time.... his stats are fine and welcome in the wider team context..... his ability IN MY VIEW is not however. "Still learning" you say.... fine.. but for how long. My assertion is that a player of more ability would have given us much more in the same positions with the same opportunities.

Noone has more direct impact and dynamism on a game, hence the Cardiff offer.

I know Gus rates him, but I think we can do better, and will need better to step up from tenth. 750k Max is my feeling if an offer came from Wolves..... unless they get fifteen million for fletcher, which may make them less frugal, but don't count on it, Wolves have big money issues.

 

[Mr Burns]

You still haven't answered where you believe the squad is underachieving, so I'll ask again.

In addition, where do you get this notion that the system 'is not working?' We finished 10th - 10th last season, our highest position for 21 years. Yes we went on a crap run towards the end of the season where we blew what chance we had of the play-offs. How about we had massively over-acheived up until that point, and ran out of gas? I don't suppose you were moaning during our good run in January and February, and it was exactly the same system. How come the system worked during that period and not after? I'll tell you how, players, not the manager. As the old saying goes, form is temporary, class is permanent, and frankly our squad lacks the class to go and run away with this division - even now, and I suspect even after we get this long-desired centre-forward.

The system does work, as was proved in League One, and it's no different now, it's making sure we have the players to sustain it in probably the most competitive 2nd tier in Europe, and I daresay more competitive than most top divisions.

I still haven't answered where I believe the squad is underachieving, because I don't think it is. I think he have a fairly decent squad. I don't think Poyet is using it right.

You said it yourself. The players lost form, we went on a bad run.

My definition of a decent manager differs to yours then. IMO before the bad run really got hold, Poyet should have changed the system to suit the players. He didn't. I don't think for one second he didn't because he's not capable. I just think he won't because its his system, and he wont change it for anything.

If as you say the players have to over achive just to fit into the system, then surely its not the right system for the squad, even if you over achive as you put it, for a while and win a few games.

You seem to have identified where it went wrong last season, why didn't Poyet. Or are you saying he knew where it was going wrong, but did nothing to change it?

It all about long term people say. Well how far into the future can we look at the expense of the present?

Are you saying for the system to work everyone has to be on top of their game, over achiving?

If we were over achiving, then how many of that sqaud in your opinion are good enough? I would suggest not many if the run we went on was because we just run out of steam.

So what happens when Poyet has 11 players he's happy with to play the system, and then some get injured?

Would the replacements would have to over-achive to fit in? If so I would suggest we need to replace those who were over achiving last season from the squad, not just the team. Probably set us back a few more years if thats the case.

The day Poyet can adjust his style to the players he has availalbe to him for any one game, will be the day I will listen to people saying he's a great manager. Until the day I will reserve judgment, and have an opinion he is an very good league one manager, and average championship manager.

I competely agree with you the the system does work, IF we had the players to sustain it. But WE DON'T. And we are nowhere near having a squad that could sustain it. I don't think any sqaud outside the top 6 in the premiership does.

So thats the point, until we do, don't use the system, and if we have to, as soon as the over achiving stops and we drop to our true level, adjust the system to match it.

Under the current way of doing things, we will never go up, and we will never be able to afford the players we need, in the numbers we need.

I just hope we don't see a repeat of the two bad runs we had last year, and have a manager sitting on the bench, point blank refusing to adapt to whats going on around him, just because he believes in his system to much.

If he can adapt, sorry not can, if he will adapt, and will mix things up when he needs to, then yer, we may well have an all time great in charge of us.

If he sticks to his principals and fails at the start of the season as we did at the end of last, then I think he'll be gone. But hopefully that won't happen.

 

[Mr Burns]

I can see what you were trying to do, but why not search for a picture with more than one barn? Or, I don't know, not bother?

DId. They didn't look very "barney". Did you miss the s next to the picture??

 

[beorhthelm]

To dismiss the system because a poor run is as short sighted as saying a player had a great game just because he scored a goal.

i dont think anyone is saying that the system is poor because of the poor run, but that the run it highlights the system has flaws. we have neither the quality of players across the squad to execute the style all the time, nor the flexibility to react tactically to those teams that stop us playing our system. we are very good... the players and style are very good... just we're not quite there yet. a few tweaks are required to turn 10th into 1st/2nd