[Misc] Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?

[Guinness Boy]

That’s all fair enough. You won’t do it though by calling their support base vacuous. These threads always seem to go the same way.

In my experience, this is partly because of the misleading wording of thread titles.

Take the two main political threads that we've allowed to keep running on the BB. "Tory Meltdown Incoming". It's awfully and subjectively worded for deliberate clickbait. "Allegations of Parties at No 10 During Lockdown" would have been far better (as that was the original hook).

This is no better. "Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?". Again subjectively worded clickbait. The obvious answer is, of course, no. No they won't. They might cause a bit of inconvenience and they might trouble a Government that appears to be lurching from crisis to crisis, but why not focus in on that? A simple poll asking if you support the rail Unions? A rational debate about whether the Union action will help or hurt the Government?

Sadly, on NSC, just as on Twatbook, Twatter and all the other idiotic social media that's now completely run by trolls, you get the level of debate you deserve, which is why most of the posters on here that I respect don't go near the politics threads any more.

 

[Lever]

That’s all fair enough. You won’t do it though by calling their support base vacuous. These threads always seem to go the same way.

I accept that criticism and will learn from it.

Sometimes the frustration in response to vacuous arguments (rather than the people themselves) causes me to lose patience and spills out into criticism of the person who made them.

I do try always to separate fellow posters (with whom I am not acquainted and certainly should not judge) from the feeble arguments they present. I just don't always manage to be successful.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

In my experience, this is partly because of the misleading wording of thread titles.

Take the two main political threads that we've allowed to keep running on the BB. "Tory Meltdown Incoming". It's awfully and subjectively worded for deliberate clickbait. "Allegations of Parties at No 10 During Lockdown" would have been far better (as that was the original hook).

This is no better. "Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?". Again subjectively worded clickbait. The obvious answer is, of course, no. No they won't. They might cause a bit of inconvenience and they might trouble a Government that appears to be lurching from crisis to crisis, but why not focus in on that? A simple poll asking if you support the rail Unions? A rational debate about whether the Union action will help or hurt the Government?

Sadly, on NSC, just as on Twatbook, Twatter and all the other idiotic social media that's now completely run by trolls, you get the level of debate you deserve, which is why most of the posters on here that I respect don't go near the politics threads any more.

Oh, I agree about the thread titles. They re-enforce prejudice and encourage people to line up on one ‘side’ or the other. What do you do if you don’t fit the battle lines ? On this thread for example the premise is inflammatory so it is no surprise that the subsequent debate is so poor.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I accept that criticism and will learn from it.

Sometimes the frustration in response to vacuous arguments (rather than the people themselves) causes me to lose patience and spills out into criticism of the person who made them.

I do try always to separate fellow posters (with whom I am not acquainted and certainly should not judge) from the feeble arguments they present. I just don't always manage to be successful.

You’re fine. I was only making a gentle point.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Totally the fault of the government

No it isn't.

Who created covid?
Who created the war in Ukraine.

Fair enough….. but other countries might have dealt with them better because no other comparable country is in as bad a position as we are at the moment except for Russia and probably the Ukraine.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

To be fair the whole world is suffering the cost of living crisis (it may be worse in the UK of course I haven't looked at the stats). The difference is that after years of austerity imposed by Tory governments, Boris and his madness, COVID, the ever-revealing madness of Brexit and other factors you guys in the UK have been shat on for many many years now.

Of course all this is the Unions fault

That was mostly my point. Other people have dealt with things better.

 

[Stat Brother]

That was mostly my point. Other people have dealt with things better.

Hence me wondering why a devote Conservative would happily offer up

"as we stand vulnerable as a country".


I'm guessing by the gibberish that followed the poster in question realised that level of honesty was a bit of a faux pa.

 

[BadFish]

Hence me wondering why a devote Conservative would happily offer up

"as we stand vulnerable as a country".


I'm guessing by the gibberish that followed the poster in question realised that level of honesty was a bit of a faux pa.

It read as though his cognitive dissonance took over and he couldn't quite bring himself to criticise his beloved Tories. Juxtapose to this though, was the realisation that any other explanation would cut it.

The question now is: will this become a moment of learning for the OP?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Totally the fault of the government

No it isn't.

Who created covid?
Who created the war in Ukraine.

I, as a citizen, have a great plan to ease the cost of living crisis which is easy to do and costs pretty much zero. I could improve lives across the board.

It is not a difficult solution to see.

But incompetence at the top of Government can't see the solution. It is their fault ( although it can be argued that inate cluelessness is a state of being rather than a fault as such ).

I can't be bothered to spend 20 years+ getting into a position in politics to be able to fix things myself, maybe if I was in my 20s perhaps, but not now.


I am not secretive about it. The plan is to apply all available statecraft to achieve membership of the European Economic Area. A massive boost to the economy would result, and the exchange rate to the (petro)dollar would fall reducing the cost of our forecourt barrels. The lives of all British citizens would improve. It isn't hard.

 

[Stat Brother]

It read as though his cognitive dissonance took over and he couldn't quite bring himself to criticise his beloved Tories. Juxtapose to this though, was the realisation that any other explanation would cut it.

Yes, the OP said rather a lot by saying nothing.

The question now is: will this become a moment of learning for the OP?

To which the answer is no - well 'no, not on here at least, far to entrenched to back down now'.

Which is why politicking on here is completely pointless.

 

[BadFish]

I, as a citizen, have a great plan to ease the cost of living crisis which is easy to do and costs pretty much zero. I could improve lives across the board.

It is not a difficult solution to see.

But incompetence at the top of Government can't see the solution. It is their fault ( although it can be argued that inate cluelessness is a state of being rather than a fault as such ).

I can't be bothered to spend 20 years+ getting into a position in politics to be able to fix things myself, maybe if I was in my 20s perhaps, but not now.


I am not secretive about it. The plan is to apply all available statecraft to achieve membership of the European Economic Area. A massive boost to the economy would result, and the exchange rate to the (petro)dollar would fall reducing the cost of our forecourt barrels. The lives of all British citizens would improve. It isn't hard.

Should have a referendum about that

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Should have a referendum about that

The plan I outlined is fully 2016 referendum compliant, and has the advantage of not requiring another one - which is wonderful as the last thing we need are more referendums.


All sovereignty and "rule taker" lies have already been fully debunked on NSC before. The plan is fully thought through - any compromises on trade are no different to any that are made in making trade deals.

I can't sell the plan to the nation on NSC. I have no statecraft at my disposal to push it forward. In my 20s it could have been a lifetime plan to push it through, sadly I've not got enough years left now to get to such a position of influence.

Anyway, it is a plan, it works, it improves British lives universally. To me it is obvious. I only have criticism for any Government that doesn't see it.

 

[beorhthelm]

I am not secretive about it. The plan is to apply all available statecraft to achieve membership of the European Economic Area. A massive boost to the economy would result, and the exchange rate to the (petro)dollar would fall reducing the cost of our forecourt barrels. The lives of all British citizens would improve. It isn't hard.

joining EEA certainly would be a positive, £:$ wouldnt expect to be stronger, euro has fallen more since start 2021. there's larger factors around $ strength going on there. its unlikely to change much to inflation as cost of energy, commodities, supply chain issues are the same. government need to do a lot more in domestic economic policy to mitigate the upcoming problems, especially on energy which will go very badly across Europe this winter.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

joining EEA certainly would be a positive, £:$ wouldnt expect to be stronger, euro has fallen more since start 2021. there's larger factors around $ strength going on there. its unlikely to change much to inflation as cost of energy, commodities, supply chain issues are the same. government need to do a lot more in domestic economic policy to mitigate the upcoming problems, especially on energy which will go very badly across Europe this winter.

Especially with oil prices at $380/barrel as currently forecast by JP Morgan if Russia halves supplies to the West. That would be a quadrupling of the price with horrendous effects on pump prices of petrol. That’s the bigger picture whilst people squabble over unions, parties and the EU.

 

[Triggaaar]

The plan is to apply all available statecraft to achieve membership of the European Economic Area. A massive boost to the economy would result, and the exchange rate to the (petro)dollar would fall reducing the cost of our forecourt barrels. The lives of all British citizens would improve.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Especially with oil prices at $380/barrel as currently forecast by JP Morgan if Russia halves supplies to the West. That would be a quadrupling of the price with horrendous effects on pump prices of petrol. That’s the bigger picture whilst people squabble over unions, parties and the EU.

I agree that if that forecast comes true it will be horrendous, but I think people are more focused on what is currently effecting them every single day which is why the fallout from Covid and Brexit are being discussed. This, together with a Government that seems, to a lot of people, to be incompetent, corrupt, deceitful and self serving with absolutely no interest in trying to address the hardships people are currently suffering as a result of their actions.

That is what is grabbing people's attention

 

[Stat Brother]

I agree that if that forecast comes true it will be horrendous, but I think people are more focused on what is currently effecting them every single day which is why the fallout from Covid and Brexit are being discussed. This, together with a Government that seems, to a lot of people, to be incompetent, corrupt, deceitful and self serving with absolutely no interest in trying to address the hardships people are currently suffering as a result of their actions.

That is what is grabbing people's attention

And making us so vulnerable!!!

 

[Deleted member 2719]

In my experience, this is partly because of the misleading wording of thread titles.

Take the two main political threads that we've allowed to keep running on the BB. "Tory Meltdown Incoming". It's awfully and subjectively worded for deliberate clickbait. "Allegations of Parties at No 10 During Lockdown" would have been far better (as that was the original hook).

This is no better. "Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?". Again subjectively worded clickbait. The obvious answer is, of course, no. No they won't. They might cause a bit of inconvenience and they might trouble a Government that appears to be lurching from crisis to crisis, but why not focus in on that? A simple poll asking if you support the rail Unions? A rational debate about whether the Union action will help or hurt the Government?

Sadly, on NSC, just as on Twatbook, Twatter and all the other idiotic social media that's now completely run by trolls, you get the level of debate you deserve, which is why most of the posters on here that I respect don't go near the politics threads any more.

You have not really justified your point here as "Tory Meltdown Incoming" is a statement and "Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?" is clearly a question, and the answer is not clearly no they won't, because they could.
Its only the start from the Unions, surely you agree with that?
Hotels, pubs, and restaurants for example have been smashed to kingdom come by the lockdown, and the RMT cut their lifeblood off again as they scrambled from their knees to stand upright. So if the RMT and other Unions keep disrupting our economy, it could theoretically bring us to our knees.

There was NO thread on a National Daily News item, it surely needed discussing, in an open way, it really isn't my fault if people think after giving my views that I should change my mind to their view.
I have seen all they have to say and I stand in defence it is the wrong time to be beating the country with a heavy stick, and personally 85% of the time there just are not justified in striking.

It still amazes me that I am expected to accept others' theories and points of view yet, the same people can not except mine, they just throw insults.
Yet you let it happen.


Anyway, I'm off this subject to watch a sport we can all agree on F1.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You have not really justified your point here as "Tory Meltdown Incoming" is a statement and "Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?" is clearly a question, and the answer is not clearly no they won't, because they could.
Its only the start from the Unions, surely you agree with that?
Hotels, pubs, and restaurants for example have been smashed to kingdom come by the lockdown, and the RMT cut their lifeblood off again as they scrambled from their knees to stand upright. So if the RMT and other Unions keep disrupting our economy, it could theoretically bring us to our knees.

There was NO thread on a National Daily News item, it surely needed discussing, in an open way, it really isn't my fault if people think after giving my views that I should change my mind to their view.
I have seen all they have to say and I stand in defence it is the wrong time to be beating the country with a heavy stick, and personally 85% of the time there just are not justified in striking.

It still amazes me that I am expected to accept others' theories and points of view yet, the same people can not except mine, they just throw insults.
Yet you let it happen.


Anyway, I'm off this subject to watch a sport we can all agree on F1.

It was being discussed intently on the Tory Meltdown thread as it is also relevant to that, and yet "red bubble NSC" has let this run to 90 pages, during which time not many people have changed their minds, and certainly none in favour of the Government.

A question can be just as loaded as a statement. In fact, questions are easier to load than statements.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

You have not really justified your point here as "Tory Meltdown Incoming" is a statement and "Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?" is clearly a question, and the answer is not clearly no they won't, because they could.
Its only the start from the Unions, surely you agree with that?
Hotels, pubs, and restaurants for example have been smashed to kingdom come by the lockdown, and the RMT cut their lifeblood off again as they scrambled from their knees to stand upright. So if the RMT and other Unions keep disrupting our economy, it could theoretically bring us to our knees.

There was NO thread on a National Daily News item, it surely needed discussing, in an open way, it really isn't my fault if people think after giving my views that I should change my mind to their view.
I have seen all they have to say and I stand in defence it is the wrong time to be beating the country with a heavy stick, and personally 85% of the time there just are not justified in striking.

It still amazes me that I am expected to accept others' theories and points of view yet, the same people can not except mine, they just throw insults.
Yet you let it happen.


Anyway, I'm off this subject to watch a sport we can all agree on F1.

F1 is shitehouse