Will Self destroys Jamie Oliver

[User removed 4]

I did a later post that admitted 'destroy' wasn't 100% accurate but used to 'sex up' a thread title that otherwise would have said 'Will Self posts restaurant review criticising TV Chef'. I'm not sure it would have got as many views.

Why do I think it's important to read? Because it doesn't just attack Oliver. It attacks an ubiquitous foodie culture that paints you as a bad parent if you don't give your kids organic everything. Taking the piss out of the little zinc buckets is a bonus.

but jamie oliver doesnt do that, he gives tips on healthy eating , he's hardly the 'middle class chelsea tractor driving mum' character that catherine tate had in her show, maybe it does come across as patronising sometimes , but how sad were those mums who were feeding their kids fish and chips through the school fence because their kids didnt want to even try some of his healthy lunches ?

 

[Guinness Boy]

but jamie oliver doesnt do that, he gives tips on healthy eating , he's hardly the 'middle class chelsea tractor driving mum' character that catherine tate had in her show, maybe it does come across as patronising sometimes , but how sad were those mums who were feeding their kids fish and chips through the school fence because their kids didnt want to even try some of his healthy lunches ?

Oh just as bad. I'm a big fan of everything in moderation TBH and that goes for organic vegetables, Big Macs and Mars Bars.

 

[Bold Seagull]

He evidently gets on Self's wick, but Will Self's self-esteem appears to forever be bouncing along the bottom - he had a tantrum over Nick Hornby's success of 'Fever Pitch' and 'High Fidelity' - so will whine at anything and everything. Whatever anyone thinks of either protagonist, that article was a tantrum, with little substance. He has an outstanding vocabulary, but - if you take that article on its own - a limited sense of reasoning.

Will Self isn't a particularly stable person. He isn't a level headed journalist that is going to turn out objective easy to read articles. He is an emotional, often confusing man, on the one hand a recovered drug addict kicking against the class system, and yet on the other from a middle class intellectual family where he read Philosophy and Politics at Oxford. He's never written to please people, or make it simple for them. His books transform the normal and mundane into the fantastical. He will be angry like this article, but some of it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. The salient point in this piece is a good one, however the outright emotion or 'tantrum' is probably not something people are used to from a mainstream journalist.

 

[Titanic]

The salient point in this piece is a good one, however the outright emotion or 'tantrum' is probably not something people are used to from a mainstream journalist.

I have relented, and read it. The 'salient point' is missing as far as I can see, which just leaves the bilious drivel.

 

[Bold Seagull]

but jamie oliver doesnt do that, he gives tips on healthy eating , he's hardly the 'middle class chelsea tractor driving mum' character that catherine tate had in her show, maybe it does come across as patronising sometimes , but how sad were those mums who were feeding their kids fish and chips through the school fence because their kids didnt want to even try some of his healthy lunches ?

Yes, but isn't Will Self's most pertinent point that we should be identifying this problem as a society, not waiting for a Sainsbury's backed, chef to transform our thinking on nutrition. Far from having an outright attack on Jamie, this is an attack on our own culture for not being able to transform this problem ourselves. That we appear to have a fame seeking chef leading some kind of cultural food revolution is as worrying as it clearly makes Will angry.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I have relented, and read it. The 'salient point' is missing as far as I can see, which just leaves the bilious drivel.

So you don't think that society should have been more aware of a school meal, nutrition, and general healthy eating crisis prior to the arrival of Jamie Oliver? That the single point of view of a fame hungry chef should somehow penetrate our cultural psyche that he is almost held as a saviour of Britains healthy eating problems?

There are a lot of fat people around, a lot. Jamie Oliver is not the answer to that, society is, the development of our cultural thinking and attitude to food is. That Jamie 'Sainsburys' Oliver appears to be the head of this rather sticks in my throat as well.

 

[Addiseagull]

Jamie Oliver must have a clever money making team behind him. When you watch some of his more recent programmes where he strays away from just cooking food, you start to realise quite how thick he is!

£20million + in the bank and you think he is 'thick'?

 

[User removed 4]

Yes, but isn't Will Self's most pertinent point that we should be identifying this problem as a society, not waiting for a Sainsbury's backed, chef to transform our thinking on nutrition. Far from having an outright attack on Jamie, this is an attack on our own culture for not being able to transform this problem ourselves. That we appear to have a fame seeking chef leading some kind of cultural food revolution is as worrying as it clearly makes Will angry.

When did jamie oliver cease to be part of ' society '?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Never quite understood the weird form of hatred some people have for Oliver. It seems personal. I never hear "Oh I'm not really a fan of his style of cooking", which would be completely fair. It's normally "fat-tongued prick"

Out of all the TV chefs to have a distaste for, I find it difficult to choose the one who campaigns for kids to eat heathily in schools.

Sure, there's an element of self-promotion in there but when isn't there?

 

[Titanic]

So you don't think that society should have been more aware of a school meal, nutrition, and general healthy eating crisis prior to the arrival of Jamie Oliver? That the single point of view of a fame hungry chef should somehow penetrate our cultural psyche that he is almost held as a saviour of Britains healthy eating problems?

There are a lot of fat people around, a lot. Jamie Oliver is not the answer to that, society is, the development of our cultural thinking and attitude to food is. That Jamie 'Sainsburys' Oliver appears to be the head of this rather sticks in my throat as well.

What is this 'society' of which you speak?

 

[pastafarian]

I like Will Self. I like his challenging writing, and his full use of available vocabulary. At 39, I like nothing better than to stumble on a complex word I've never read before, not sure why this would upset people.

I've also enjoyed his books. Great Apes is a brilliant satirical novel, as are many of his other books.

Does Jamie Oliver really not get on anyone else's wick?

Actually Oliver gets on my boobies but only because he has taken to serving up everything on a chopping board,i am waiting for him to try this with soup before i finally give up on him.

I have no time for people like will self either mind you

 

[Jesus Gul]

great use of the word 'schmozzle'

 

[Bold Seagull]

When did jamie oliver cease to be part of ' society '?

Society, collective social consciousness, the voice of the whole not of the individual. Jamie quite rightly bought attention to the school meal crisis that no one had thought to check on.....we have fat kids, why could that be?? But now, instead of that triggering a steady cultural revolution, 10 years on from filming his 'school dinners' we're still faced with a nutritional crisis that we seem unable to address. Jamie is neither the solution nor the problem, he is merely part of society as you say.

When you really consider the article, it appears to me Will really isn't having a go at Jamie Oliver, he is having a go at where we've put him, us the consumer, of food, of celebrity. He's not angry with Jamie, he's angry with what Jamie represents, and that is not just brushetta and organic vegetables and chips in metal buckets, it is our cultural inability to change, to realise nutrition isn't a contemporary packaged aspirational desire, it can be something very basic, cheap and simple. There is a difference.

 

[Bold Seagull]

When did jamie oliver cease to be part of ' society '?

What is this 'society' of which you speak?

Do you two want to PM each other first and decide on who posts what?? Might make things a little quicker....

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

£20million + in the bank and you think he is 'thick'?

When has wealth been a measure of someone's intelligence? Is Wayne Rooney a mastermind? Katie Price a Brainiac?

 

[Bold Seagull]

When has wealth been a measure of someone's intelligence? Is Wayne Rooney a mastermind? Katie Price a Brainiac?

4 books, £45m, she's clearly pretty much our current generation equivalent of John Locke!

 

[User removed 4]

Society, collective social consciousness, the voice of the whole not of the individual. Jamie quite rightly bought attention to the school meal crisis that no one had thought to check on.....we have fat kids, why could that be?? But now, instead of that triggering a steady cultural revolution, 10 years on from filming his 'school dinners' we're still faced with a nutritional crisis that we seem unable to address. Jamie is neither the solution nor the problem, he is merely part of society as you say.

When you really consider the article, it appears to me Will really isn't having a go at Jamie Oliver, he is having a go at where we've put him, us the consumer, of food, of celebrity. He's not angry with Jamie, he's angry with what Jamie represents,

Then why is the article entitled ' why I hate Jamie Oliver ' ? Why does he talk of 'shameless avaricousness' and say ' Needless to say, Oliver sticks in my craw and I’d walk a cunty mile to avoid him and all his works ' ?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Then why is the article entitled ' why I hate Jamie Oliver ' ? Why does he talk of 'shameless avaricousness' and say ' Needless to say, Oliver sticks in my craw and I’d walk a cunty mile to avoid him and all his works ' ?

Why don't you counter my opinion on the article with an opinion of your own which could articulate where I am wrong, rather than your consistent habit of simply asking questions. My posts are detailed enough for you to understand where I am coming from, my views on Self, and what I have taken from the piece.

 

[somerset]

Never quite understood the weird form of hatred some people have for Oliver. It seems personal. I never hear "Oh I'm not really a fan of his style of cooking", which would be completely fair. It's normally "fat-tongued prick"

Out of all the TV chefs to have a distaste for, I find it difficult to choose the one who campaigns for kids to eat heathily in schools.

Sure, there's an element of self-promotion in there but when isn't there?

...... and so say most right and even minded individuals.

 

[Birdie Boy]

I can't stand Self and quite like Oliver especially his books. What I don't get is Self says he hates Oliver so much but he then goes and eats in his restaurant and then publicizing his restaurants, his shows, his books etc. on a piece that makes himself look a complete ****. I think Oliver may have owned Self without even doing anything!

How many people would go and eat in a restaurant when they despise the owner?