Will Cummings go?

[Mellotron]

FFS....now we'll get three days of the news debating what 'might' means.

If only there was some way to end all of this and get back to focusing on what matters, eh?

Oh yeah.

There is.

Just ****ing sack Cummings. Job done.

 

[dazzer6666]

Nothing wrong with that, words matter.

I've been in meetings were there has been discussions of over an hour on whether the singular or plural of a word should be used and the different outcomes depending on what was used. Fun times

****ing waste of time that should be spent on more important things because..............

If only there was some way to end all of this and get back to focusing on what matters, eh?

Oh yeah.

There is.

Just ****ing sack Cummings. Job done.

..........this is what should have happened.

 

[Wozza]

FFS....now we'll get three days of the news debating what 'might' means.

Except there's no debate to be had.

When the police arrest someone for murder, it's not up to them to decide that they're guilty.

 

[vegster]

A 'minor breach'. FFS, that's like saying someone's 'a bit pregnant'. Cummings either breached the regulations or he didn't.

How have we ended up here?

This is the best outcome for Johnson, Cummings and the police, It's been investigated, he's been a bit naughty but not badly enough to fine like 14,000 odd other people ( who will now be fuming ) and so its " nothing to see here, keep moving " . Most of the population will say " how the **** did he get away with that ? the right wing press get back in line behind Johnson and we limp on to the next cluster****...….. are the fixtures out yet ?

 

[dazzer6666]

Except there's no debate to be had.

When the police arrest someone for murder, it's not up to them to decide that they're guilty.

Not a good comparison - here they'd issue a 'ticket' like a speeding fine....................but they've decided not to.

 

[Stato]

This is what i couldn't understand about yourself and people like my brother who voted leave and endorsed the ERG/UKIP position. One look at these people's past record shows that they were and are only interested in themselves and their track record e.g. NHS was/is a clear sign of what they want to do to shape the country and in my consideration the EU is/was the lesser of two evils.

An old story that, it turns out, was strangely prescient given that throughout the pandemic, he has acted like Mayor Vaughan. It sums up Johnson's attitude: 'If they are in the way of my agenda, people are dispensable.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1557765/Boris-Johnson-inspired-by-Jaws-mayor.html

The Cummings scandal has confirmed that the truth is also dispensable to him.

 

[Gwylan]

[tweet]1265977744996925440[/tweet]

There's been too little coverage of this aspect of the whole Cummings affair. It does seem that Braverman has little understanding of the AG's role as an independent legal authority. In a sane world I suspect that this would, indeed, be a resigning matter, but in the looking glass one we find ourselves in, she'll probably get promoted.

 

[vegster]

FFS....now we'll get three days of the news debating what 'might' means.

This is the way the narrative has changed, to a HUGE majority of people in this country it is quite obvious the rules, the guidance and the law have all been broken, somehow, this has been diluted to " might " … incredible times we live in.

 

[Wozza]

Not a good comparison - here they'd issue a 'ticket' like a speeding fine....................but they've decided not to.

Well, to put another way, I think the police say they WOULD have intervened but don’t know the outcome.

 

[Jim in the West]

FFS....now we'll get three days of the news debating what 'might' means.

Possibly - but the lawyers' views that I've seen basically say that the wording indicates that he DID commit a breach of the regulations (ie, the law), but because it was "minor", no further action needs to be taken.

Therefore, I think it's logical to conclude that minor breaches of the regulations are fine (and are even to be applauded by the Prime Minister, in fact!).

Part of the problem in all this is that we have "guidelines" (STAY AT HOME), and "regulations" (ie, the law - which lists out detailed circumstances, etc). It's pretty clear that Cummings didn't adhere to the guidelines, and also breached the regulations (albeit in a minor way). I still find it bizarre that they concocted the story about testing his eyesight, though - in a way it was entirely unnecessary, and just served to underline how willing they are to use whatever lies they feel like!

Of course, the Government will keep up their "Let's move on" message.

 

[clapham_gull]

Not a good comparison - here they'd issue a 'ticket' like a speeding fine....................but they've decided not to.

Basically (badly) they have said:

1) He probably broke the law with trip to Castle Barnard.

2) He didn't "break the law" with trip to Durham, but they are only accessing the law and not Government guidance.

3) Due to the nature of the 1) if he had been spotted advice would have been given to him to return back to Durham and not issue a fixed penalty notice. That's what they mean by "minor" , basing the severity of the breach on their reaction to it.

4) By implication if he had refused, a fixed penalty notice would have been given.

Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis.

“Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken.”

5) They haven't retrospectively fined anyone so it be inconsistent to do so here.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

This. I think Gove will be in place prior to the next election.

I'm not certain.

A replacement requires a leadership election and there are enough big hitters in the Party, Javid and Hunt for starters, who would put themselves forward and campaign on we haven't been involved in this cluster**k ticket. The longer Gove remains loyal within cabinet the greater the possibility of him being associated with its problems. The only other way out for him is to wield the knife again in Johnson's back - but would that go down well a second time?

 

[RossyG]

From a political standpoint he’d be mad to apologise. The sharks would scent blood.

I actually hope he doesn’t as I want to see how this plays out.

With cancel culture, I’ve always thought that if the employers/corporations stood firm, then those demanding people are sacked would soon tire and move onto another target. But they always panic and cave in. So far Boris hasn’t.

I know this isn’t quite the same, but it’s close enough to test the theory.

 

[Si Gull]

The police say he "might" have because...

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1265986473955819520?s=20

[tweet]1265986473955819520[/tweet]

So in this case, how would it get progressed to court?

 

[monty uk]

What we need is a professional QC to lay it down, on record, in Parliament.

Where can we find one of those?

 

[dazzer6666]

Possibly - but the lawyers' views that I've seen basically say that the wording indicates that he DID commit a breach of the regulations (ie, the law), but because it was "minor", no further action needs to be taken.

Therefore, I think it's logical to conclude that minor breaches of the regulations are fine (and are even to be applauded by the Prime Minister, in fact!).

Part of the problem in all this is that we have "guidelines" (STAY AT HOME), and "regulations" (ie, the law - which lists out detailed circumstances, etc). It's pretty clear that Cummings didn't adhere to the guidelines, and also breached the regulations (albeit in a minor way). I still find it bizarre that they concocted the story about testing his eyesight, though - in a way it was entirely unnecessary, and just served to underline how willing they are to use whatever lies they feel like!

Of course, the Government will keep up their "Let's move on" message.

Yep, that's why he should have been fired (IMO, obviously)

 

[clapham_gull]

As footnote, Cummings has described his lock down retreat as a "spare cottage" on his parent's farm.

It's actually his second home because he joint owns the farm as confirmed by land registry documents.

It's also received €235,000 in Euro subsidies.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/10/dominic-cummings-owns-farm-got-eu-subsidy

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Stop being a dick and trying to score cheap points, most people referred to serving down in 'Bosnia' or Yugoslavia in the early 90s regardless of if they ever went near the actual land or place. I've done the same as 'Patrolling the Adriatic enforcing UN resolutions relating to the conflict in the Former Yugoslavian Republic' tends to be a bit of a mouthful, people understand and remember more readily when you paraphrase it to 'Bosnia' which covered pretty much most of what happened down there, there's nothing heroic intended about it you're simply trying to belittle the guy posting it because he dared to disagree with you or have a different opinion.

A number of my oppos were on the ground in Bosnia (845 and 846) and they wouldn’t agree with you. You were either in Bosnia or you weren’t.
I was part of the support for Lebanon in ‘85 on the Reliant. A couple of the guys acted as aircraft gunners and were feet down in Lebanon. They can say they were there. I on the other hand wasn’t feet down and so describe my time as ‘off the coast of Lebanon’.
But whatever ....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Thunder Bolt]

From a political standpoint he’d be mad to apologise. The sharks would scent blood.

I actually hope he doesn’t as I want to see how this plays out.

With cancel culture, I’ve always thought that if the employers/corporations stood firm, then those demanding people are sacked would soon tire and move onto another target. But they always panic and cave in. So far Boris hasn’t.

I know this isn’t quite the same, but it’s close enough to test the theory.

The sharks include 61 Tory MPs. Imagine if someone filed a vote of no confidence?

 

[clapham_gull]

So in this case, how would it get progressed to court?

If he had refused to return back or repeated the offence. They then issued a fixed penalty notice. He then refused to pay and let the court decide.

, but it's hypothetical because he wasn't caught doing it and it is the current procedure of Durham Police not to issue fines retrospectively for offences like this.

Either way he broke the law, that's the opinion of the police. They are only saying "might" because they're talking retrospectively. If he been caught they would be saying "had" and it would be up to him to fight it.