Why we are not good enough

[BensGrandad]

The reason England struggle at international level of football OUR PLAYERS .
ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH

The following figures were taken from the Sunday Times showing the nationalities of all players taking part in the European Champions League on 2/3 Oct - 16 Matches 32 teams:

53 Brazilian
34 French
30 Italien
29 Spanish
23 Portugese
20 Argentinian
20 German
16 Romanian
15 Turks
15 Chezs
14 Serbian
13 Scottish
13 Dutch
12 English
11 Ivory Coast
10 Ukraine

Of the 12 English Scholes and Carragher have retired from international football and Sidwell came on for 10 minutes.

1 more point who has watched the most up and coming young English players over the last 6 years and who is managing the suprise team in the Premiership..... Sven. How many English players has he signed for Man City.....0

 

[RM-Taylor]

But do the players who play for England have to play in the Champions League.

The answer is no, they should be picked on talent and form, not because of who they play for.

But with the FA this is never going to happen.

 

[BensGrandad]

It is claimed by many that we have the best league in the world and we have 4 teams in the tournament i.e a minimum of 44 players and for the 4 best teams in the country we only produce less than 25% of the players involved.

 

[RM-Taylor]

It is claimed by many that we have the best league in the world and we have 4 teams in the tournament i.e a minimum of 44 players and for the 4 best teams in the country we only produce less than 25% of the players involved.

In my opinion La Liga is the best league, always thrilling and never nailed on who is going to win the title.

But the amount of English players in the sides known as the 'top 4' is unacceptable to be honest, but nothing can be done about it, as truly it will just ruin football in my eyes.

 

[BensGrandad]

Premier League should make a rule no more than 3 players who are not eligible to play for England can take part in a game and it would not break EU rules on employment because the clubs could still employ 50 if they wanted. It would also mean that the clubs would only buy the best players not the run of the mill 3rd rate eastern europeans and thus allow our young players to develope.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I don't notice a huge rush by ANY league to sign talented English players, whether Premier, Italian, Spanish, German, San Marino etc.

If English players in general were as good or better than other nationalities then presumably somebody somewhere would snap them up. But nobody does.

Why is it that so many other nationalities do well plying abroad but most English players fail? It can't be anything to do with unfamiliar cultures, languages etc as everyone else seems to manage. It must be that in general English players don't have the skill, intellegence, desire, ambition or general ability to shine above the rest.

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

The problem starts at grass roots level - kids nowadays don't wanna play football they just want to dress up like tards and act like chavs.

Harry Redknapp said the other day by 2018 football will be seen as a posho sport as rugby is nowadays....there's no interest in playing among the working class anymore.

 

[mona]

We ?
We ?
The England team is the FA team. The FA are the instigators of the premier league.
What responsibility do English football fans have in the decline of the national team?

 

[e77]

The problem is kids aren't coached properly before clubs take them on. Junior coaches here are mainly concerned with winning matches, not developing kids.

 

[Wozza]

The fact is, the stronger/richer the Premier League is, the weaker the English national side will be.

Yes, there are more foreigners playing, which obviously means fewer opportunities for English players. But also, up and coming English players prefer to sit in the reserves of a super rich club here, rather than play for a European side (not that English players were ever great travellers).

Actually, we discussed the lack of English players in the Champions League back here: http://www.northstandchat.biz/showthread.php?t=103549

Premier League should make a rule no more than 3 players who are not eligible to play for England can take part in a game

And why would the Premier League want to do that, even if it could?!

 

[Cian]

Premier League should make a rule no more than 3 players who are not eligible to play for England can take part in a game and it would not break EU rules on employment because the clubs could still employ 50 if they wanted. It would also mean that the clubs would only buy the best players not the run of the mill 3rd rate eastern europeans and thus allow our young players to develope.

Erm, specifying "no more than 3 per game" would still be against EU employment law. Same as specifying "no more than 3 black players" or "no more than 3 northerners" would be.

Have you considered that the "run of the mill 3rd rate eastern europeans" might, maybe, just maybe, be better than the young English players?

 

[BensGrandad]

Erm, specifying "no more than 3 per game" would still be against EU employment law. Same as specifying "no more than 3 black players" or "no more than 3 northerners" would be.

?

That would not because it is in place in the like of Italy as it is a rule within football and bares no relation tio the number of persons a club may employ. So there is not a restriction on employing European players just a restirction of how many can play in one match at any one time.

The reason that the Premier League may wish to do it is because the Premier League was started by the FA to combat the Football League which is an independant authority answerable to the FA and it is the FA that is also responsible for our national team so the restriction in the Premier League would increase the ability in the national side. Until something like this is done we shall never get near to winning an international title of note.

The Premier League clubs may not be too keen on the idea because they are in the main privately owned.

 

[Cian]

That would not because it is in place in the like of Italy as it is a rule within football and bares no relation tio the number of persons a club may employ. So there is not a restriction on employing European players just a restirction of how many can play in one match at any one time.

The reason that the Premier League may wish to do it is because the Premier League was started by the FA to combat the Football League which is an independant authority answerable to the FA and it is the FA that is also responsible for our national team so the restriction in the Premier League would increase the ability in the national side. Until something like this is done we shall never get near to winning an international title of note.

The Premier League clubs may not be too keen on the idea because they are in the main privately owned.

No, I guarantee you its illegal and nobody has taken a case in Italy over it yet; there's a difference between something being illegal and something being done about it. You wouldn't be able to say "I have thirty Polish staff in my pub but I'm only allowed have 3 of them on the bar at any one time by the LVA", for instance. There's no difference between that and football.

Also, if you mean "privately" as in "not state-owned", ALL the Premier League clubs are "privately" owned. If you mean as in "not a PLC", why would PLC-owned clubs be any more or less accepting of a rule like that

 

[BensGrandad]

I couldnt have 30 because it wouldnt be viable but I could have 6 and work them in shifts so that at any one time only 3 were working and I wouldnt be acting against EU Employment Law. 3 working from12 - 6 and another 3 from 6 - 12 .

If I owned a Premier League club a la Abramovich or Glazier I would not want my manager paying the wages of 10 players at £80k per week and only being allowed to play 3. I might let him sign 4 or 5 but certainly not as many as the top 4 clubs in the country have now. So given the chance, I would vote against the idea of such a rule.

Just had a thought did Scotland not bring in such a rule a few years back when their national side reached rock bottom?

 

[Cian]

Yes, but what you are proposing is ENTIRELY different to having 6 staff and working them in two shifts of three. Its having 30 staff, 15 of one nationality and 15 from others and working 13 of the first and 3 of the second at any given time.

Your second response doesn't explain the difference between a Ltd and a PLC held club in this regard - the board of a PLC has to protect shareholders financial interests just as much as in a private company.

 

[BensGrandad]

I was proposing having 30 staff in total of which 6 were of non english origin and working those in shifts of 3 on 3 off or first team squad of 20 players 6 of whom cannot play for England and 3 play this week and 3 next week, excactly the same scenario.

Also much as it is the responsibility of PLC to their shareholders human nature being what it is a club owned by a private individual will be usually more cost conscious than a plc.

Who watch the pennies more British Rail, when it was, or Virgin Trains.

 

[Nemesis]

The reason that the Premier League may wish to do it is because the Premier League was started by the FA to combat the Football League

I seem to remember the FA saying that they had created the Premiershite to help the England team be more competitive in major tournaments which was clearly a load of crap because since its creation England appears to be going backwards.

All the while we have the Premiershite set up the way it is-England will never win a tournament. Too many young players are riding the bench or are loaned out to clubs in lower divisions-how are they supposed to improve their game playing the likes of the Albion? Seriously!

Most other countries (Germany, Italy, Brazil, etc.) want their national sides to do well-the FA just pays lip service to it. Why else did they appoint McClaren?

 

[Cian]

Yes, but in that case you would be enforcing extremely basic discrimination on hiring staff = illegal. Its not legally possible, simple as.

And that assertion is absolute bullshit - PLCs have serious levels of checks and controls that mean that they have to be cost concious; often far more so than any privately held firm is. Virgin Trains is (only) 49% held by a PLC as it happens....

 

[BensGrandad]

I seem to remember the FA saying that they had created the Premiershite to help the England team be more competitive in major tournaments which was clearly a load of crap because since its creation England appears to be going backwards.

QUOTE]


Because of the numbers of players playing in it who are not eligible to play for England.

How many in our top 4 clubs 1st team squads are? Man Utd 6? Chelsea 6? Arsenal 1? Liverpool 3? that is all that I can think of off the top of my head , there may be a few more but not that many. Spurs and Everton have probably as many as anybody.

 

[Nemesis]

Because of the numbers of players playing in it who are not eligible to play for England.

How many in our top 4 clubs 1st team squads are? Man Utd 6? Chelsea 6? Arsenal 1? Liverpool 3? that is all that I can think of off the top of my head , there may be a few more but not that many. Spurs and Everton have probably as many as anybody.

It's obvious that the people in charge of the game (FA) have to decide what is more important to them. The Premiershite or the England team. They cannot serve both camps the way things are at the moment and I believe it is the Premiershite that they favour because it is a money maker. If they are more interested in the Premiershite, they should hand over the control of the England team to others-maybe even the Football League....ok, maybe not the FL but it does need changing because things look very broken to me.