Why it's vitally important that we do not denounce Barber

[goldstone]

A pint at The Amex is expensive in relation to what I get for it compared to a pub. A floppy plastic glass with nowhere to sit down, or even to put the the pint down, all in a drafty concrete hanger...The fact that the football is on is irrelevant to the equation as that is handsomely charged for separately.

What is worse is that pints at The Amex only last on average for about two minutes as you have to wolf them down in the time available after queuing...

At £4.20 I will buy about 35 pints this year. Revenue £147 and me feeling squeezed and a bit ripped off.

At £3.90 I know I would buy at least a few more, maybe 40... Revenue £156 and me feeling not so squeezed or ripped off.

Doesn't seem too tricky?

Personally I have no idea why people bother to consume pints of beer at football stadiums. The reasons not to are well stated above:
- plastic glass
- nowhere to sit
- nowhere to put your glass down
- drafty, unattractive surroundings
- rip-off prices
- instead of enjoying the taste of the beer you drink it quickly so as not to miss any of the game

If you must have a beer before or after a game, go to a local pub.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You are talking out of your backside! Where have you been the last few years. We have never had a more engaging leader as Paul Barber.

I wonder if you might have missed a bit of irony there. Are you American?

 

[SAC]

As he reduced the club's losses last year by £4.7M he seems good value for money or at least, his boss and those clued in think so.

Wasn't the loss in the previous accounts thought to be artificially high with costs brought forward so they didn't mess with year two (the first year with punishments) of FFP?

 

[Brighton Mod]

Hmm, what period does the comparison operating profit relate to and of course it can be made to look like it needs to be. Trouble is, still can't park in Bennets Field, still can't get a pie in the 1901 and the team is still reeling from a summer of failed signings, wrong decisions and poor appointments.

Barber is so not beyond criticism, especialy as we lurk around the relegation zone. Its not difficult to cut costs, the trick is to do that whilst still maintaining sales and margins and in this he has drastically failed. No press release or Seagulls website spin will make me see this differently.

 

[spanish flair]

Given what we are currently losing it's not a sustainable business, so his job is to make it sustainable. He may make unpopular decisions according to some, but TB no doubt backs them completely.

TB backed David Burke 100% after the summer, whatever happened to him?

Edit: Sorry Herr Tubthumper I have just seen your post

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Personally I have no idea why people bother to consume pints of beer at football stadiums. The reasons not to are well stated above:
- plastic glass
- nowhere to sit
- nowhere to put your glass down
- drafty, unattractive surroundings
- rip-off prices
- instead of enjoying the taste of the beer you drink it quickly so as not to miss any of the game

If you must have a beer before or after a game, go to a local pub.

But if you don't buy pints at the AMEX the club will have to sell all it's players. I read this in the CEO's programme notes.

 

[chaileyjem]

Barber is so not beyond criticism, especialy as we lurk around the relegation zone. Its not difficult to cut costs, the trick is to do that whilst still maintaining sales and margins and in this he has drastically failed. No press release or Seagulls website spin will make me see this differently.

Or even the accounts filed at company house. ?
Where it says the complete opposite.
http://www.seagulls.co.uk/documents/doc150115-15012015133454229-2206891.pdf

 

[Bold Seagull]

- plastic glass
- nowhere to sit
- nowhere to put your glass down
- drafty, unattractive surroundings
- rip-off prices

I think you've managed to describe a large number of drinking establishments in Brighton!

 

[Hamilton]

Oh dear. So we want to see our team play attractive football every week and probably win more than we lose, but we don't want to be in the premiership.

We want to be solvent, but we don't want to pay for anything that smells club profiteering and we don't believe in cutting costs.

If we were to go up we'd want to be spending our time looking for players, but we don't want to even entertain the idea that there might in fact be a set of requirements handed down by the premier league that sets out what it expects of every club when it comes to the level of its facilities.

Seems like a lot of people haven't got a grip. Heads in the sand.

That said, we can do a much better job of involving fans in planning for the future. There's lots of people on here with lots of ideas on how we can improve and safeguard the future of the club - dare I say it, even influence the type of club we want to be in the future. I hope Paul Beirne finds a way of getting those fans involved.

 

[ROSM]

Oh dear. So we want to see our team play attractive football every week and probably win more than we lose, but we don't want to be in the premiership.

We want to be solvent, but we don't want to pay for anything that smells club profiteering and we don't believe in cutting costs.

If we were to go up we'd want to be spending our time looking for players, but we don't want to even entertain the idea that there might in fact be a set of requirements handed down by the premier league that sets out what it expects of every club when it comes to the level of its facilities.

Seems like a lot of people haven't got a grip. Heads in the sand.

That said, we can do a much better job of involving fans in planning for the future. There's lots of people on here with lots of ideas on how we can improve and safeguard the future of the club - dare I say it, even influence the type of club we want to be in the future. I hope Paul Beirne finds a way of getting those fans involved.

Agree entirely. And that may also help turnaround the drop in Income from ticket sales and catering that the last accounts detailed

Also dont forget that midway next season the 1901 renewals hit. I really can't predict which way that will go.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Also dont forget that midway next season the 1901 renewals hit. I really can't predict which way that will go.

It's a big call for Barber. It will be interesting to see what he does. They're currently good value which has resulted in over 3000 sales. Too high and there will be lots of empty seats.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Or even the accounts filed at company house. ?
Where it says the complete opposite.
http://www.seagulls.co.uk/documents/doc150115-15012015133454229-2206891.pdf

So what do you read in these accounts as its something different to my interpretation, a modest fall in staff/player costs to £20m, a marginal increase in direct ticket sales, £0.5m (30%) drop in catering revenue, a carried forward deb/loss of £89m, an increasing loan debt with creditors increasing and debtors decreasing. The big changes have been in accounting not in management of the assets of the company or the increase of sales. I would say that Barbers hand of influence in operational terms on this set of accounts is extremely marginal. I would be pleased for you to show me where he has managed the costs and increased the sales, because these figures don't bare that out.

The club is only currently sustainable because of its directors guarantees, the situation reminds me of the national debt, just growing and growing, excepting we're just going into recession as we hover above the relegation zone.

 

[chaileyjem]

So what do you read in these accounts as its something different to my interpretation, a modest fall in staff/player costs to £20m, a marginal increase in direct ticket sales, £0.5m (30%) drop in catering revenue, a carried forward deb/loss of £89m, an increasing loan debt with creditors increasing and debtors decreasing. The big changes have been in accounting not in management of the assets of the company or the increase of sales. I would say that Barbers hand of influence in operational terms on this set of accounts is extremely marginal. I would be pleased for you to show me where he has managed the costs and increased the sales, because these figures don't bare that out.

The club is only currently sustainable because of its directors guarantees, the situation reminds me of the national debt, just growing and growing, excepting we're just going into recession as we hover above the relegation zone.

The changes in the last season were ...
A 9.5% increase in ticket sales - not marginal and biggest in the league.
A £4.5m /27% decrease in operational and admin costs - substantial for a business of this size.
Overall commercial revenues rose by 16% - not modest.
And Player costs ie: the player budget actually increased last season not a "modest fall" - from £19.8m to £20.7m

The big changes in 2013/14 were staff redundancies, re-negotiating a bunch of new commercial contracts (Amex on shirts etc), encouraging the highest ticket sales in the Championship ...not "accounting".

And Tony Bloom didn't say Barber's "hand of influence" was "extremely marginal". He said in the accounts that Barber had delivered "outstanding results'.

Of course the club is sustainable, for now, because of Tony Bloom's investment but as he said "While we do want to play at the highest level, we cannot simply open our cheque book and start spending without care or attention. We must continue to run this club as prudently as possible. " His hiring of Barber in 2012 was designed to do that and he's succeeding.

 

[chaileyjem]

Agree entirely. And that may also help turnaround the drop in Income from ticket sales that the last accounts detailed

There wasn't a drop in ticket sales in the 2013/14 accounts. They went up by nearly 10% to £10.4m from £9.4m in 2012/13.

 

[Horses Arse]

The changes in the last season were ...
A 9.5% increase in ticket sales - not marginal and biggest in the league.
A £4.5m /27% decrease in operational and admin costs - substantial for a business of this size.
Overall commercial revenues rose by 16% - not modest.
And Player costs ie: the player budget actually increased last season not a "modest fall" - from £19.8m to £20.7m

The big changes in 2013/14 were staff redundancies, re-negotiating a bunch of new commercial contracts (Amex on shirts etc), encouraging the highest ticket sales in the Championship ...not "accounting".

And Tony Bloom didn't say Barber's "hand of influence" was "extremely marginal". He said in the accounts that Barber had delivered "outstanding results'.

Of course the club is sustainable, for now, because of Tony Bloom's investment but as he said "While we do want to play at the highest level, we cannot simply open our cheque book and start spending without care or attention. We must continue to run this club as prudently as possible. " His hiring of Barber in 2012 was designed to do that and he's succeeding.

From a bloated operation and increased stadium capacity for these accounts? I think the stadium increase was in the financial year just reported, if not then that's a great increase.

I'm not saying that Barber has failed but failure was nigh on impossible following what went on before.

If you compare the results with Palace's in the season they went up in their hovel of a ground with small support and them practically giving tickets away (actually literally giving them away) then these results aren't very good. The improvement on these results is where Barber will earn his corn in my opinion. If he fails to deliver subsequent improvements then all he's done is remove the fat left from the previous regime, which should have been quite straight forward.

You also have to wait until the impact on ticket sales for next year, which based on attendances so far may not be so great. Would love to see his impact on programme sales too!

 

[chaileyjem]

From a bloated operation and increased stadium capacity for these accounts? I think the stadium increase was in the financial year just reported, if not then that's a great increase.

If you compare the results with Palace's in the season they went up in their hovel of a ground with small support and them practically giving tickets away (actually literally giving them away) then these results aren't very good.

Palace would have made a similar loss to the Albion in 2013/14 (£7.7m) that year (2012/13) but for selling Zaha and other players of course admits Steve Parish himself. Palace's support was smaller than the Albion that year but still an average of 17K so not quite as small as you imply . That said Albion had an higher wage bill than Palace that season and also a far higher turnover. (£23m to $14m) - ie: ticket sales/commercial so not sure what you mean.

Most of the increase in the stadium's capacity (ie: the East Stand Upper) was completed in time for start of 2012/13, with the complete in filling in the ends during 2012/13.
Although 2013/14 was the first full season with every game at the potential 30,750 capacity.

Not sure what Barber has done either simply "remove the fat" or "straightforward" ...but then I'm not a CEO of a business with a £25m turnover.

 

[desprateseagull]

how can ANY firm pay bonuses, if posting a £10m LOSS??

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Barber LOVES a target so here is MINE for him.

Deliver Championship football as a minimum and I will renew year on year. Not too worried about the prem, will not accept League One EVER been there for too long (and lower) not going back need some years in the Champ like our mates up the road then we can have a crack at the prem every now and then, probably failing. Dont deliver Champ football and I wont renew. Simple.

 

[smiler]

Wasn't the loss in the previous accounts thought to be artificially high with costs brought forward so they didn't mess with year two (the first year with punishments) of FFP?

Yes they did

 

[smiler]

Well I pay less than £3.90 for mine when i buy it at about 2.15pm cos i get 10% off with my ST and if you go to every game then i assume you've got one too...

I know quite a few people, myself included, who now stay in the pub for an extra pint instead of buying at the ground.