[Albion] Why Are We So Wasteful?

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Shooting practice is something that has limited effect. If you are a 25 year old player, you've probably been practising shooting for 20 years or so. Another couple of weeks or months is going to do very little difference and I can promise that they shoot a bit in training sessions as it is (although should be said that Potter is a fan of the the modern holistic training methods where everything is put into match like situations, non of that stand-in-a-line, get a pass and get a free shot on goal that nearly never happens in reality).

If you ask a 27 year old striker who recently started scoring a lot of goals they will rarely point to the amount of practice. It happens once in a while, "I stayed for 30 minutes after the training sessions and just practiced shooting", but the far more common reply will be something like "I decided/the coach told me to watch how Marco van Basten moved inside the penalty area" or "striker X told me how to think in this and this situation". Some players may improve from this, some may not, some may not be skilled enough or able to read the game enough to the point where this type of advice matters.

Does this mean its a coaching thing? To some extent maybe yes, there is no way of knowing for sure unless you attend all training sessions and all personal coach-to-manager talks and similar, but surely its possible to speculate. Potter used to play as defender, so did Bruno, Billy Reid was a defender/midfielder. They still probably know a lot of shit about how to develop skills and getting dangerous areas etc. but they may not know a lot about the "striker brain". Would adding a striker coach help? Maybe. But you imagine it would also help to sign experienced strikers, like Welbeck, but its never a guarantee. Just because you are experienced and know how to do things doesnt mean you are good at explaining it to others. A good horse is not always a good rider.

In your opinion, does bringing Murray back to the dressing room to coach and help the forwards in training have any merit?

Murray would need to want to do this rather than realistically play at the end of his career and it would be expensive at £50k a week but any improvement obviously pays for itself.


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[Thunder Bolt]

I'm sure they do, but how much? Maupay should be practicing his shooting from 8a.m. to 6.30pm every day in training. Well he would be if I was manager. A bit of Brian Clough direct speaking/action really is what is needed now. Then, if he still doesn't improve, sell and replace him.

Im thankful that you aren’t.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I don't think scoring goals is the real issue it has been the defence and leaking some VERY soft goals that has been the issue. Sure more goals would have helped that's a no brainer but look at the table and we have scored more goals than 6 other teams , we have scored as many as Palace and are a few (5) less than West Ham, Southampton & Everton. It should be an easier to fix defending (and not giving away corners, freekicks and penalties) than spending (gambling) the 30-40 million on a striker especially as we have some reasonable defenders to start with.

That said with the strikers that we have Tau, Connolly and Maupay (and to some extend Trossard) would all benefit from quickly released balls to feet and into space rather than trying to compete in the air.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

Maupay scored 9 goals last season,and is already on 7 this time. That is a good return in the PL.

Your observations are disingenuous at best.

I understand 3 are from penalties in a season when penalties are given out like appointments to the House of Lords. 4 goals from open play in this Brighton midfield is not, I disagree anywhere near good enough. He misses chance after chance. If you refuse to see a problem, then you cant fix it. Get him praticing morning, noon and night, but if he doesn't inprove, he has to go. Imagine what a Ward or Byrne would do in this side with this midfield. This midfield create chance after chance every game. It's not like they are starved of chances. They just dont take them.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I understand 3 are from penalties in a season when penalties are given out like appointments to the House of Lords. 4 goals from open play in this Brighton midfield is not, I disagree anywhere near good enough. He misses chance after chance. If you refuse to see a problem, then you cant fix it. Get him praticing morning, noon and night, but if he doesn't inprove, he has to go. Imagine what a Ward or Byrne would do in this side with this midfield. This midfield create chance after chance every game. It's not like they are starved of chances. They just dont take them.

The old chestnut that penalties don’t count.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

I don't think scoring goals is the real issue it has been the defence and leaking some VERY soft goals that has been the issue. Sure more goals would have helped that's a no brainer but look at the table and we have scored more goals than 6 other teams , we have scored as many as Palace and are a few (5) less than West Ham, Southampton & Everton. It should be an easier to fix defending (and not giving away corners, freekicks and penalties) than spending (gambling) the 30-40 million on a striker especially as we have some reasonable defenders to start with.

That said with the strikers that we have Tau, Connolly and Maupay (and to some extend Trossard) would all benefit from quickly released balls to feet and into space rather than trying to compete in the air.

Yes, I agree, defending especially set pieces has been just a big a problem. But he has changed the keeper and looked to address that. Now look at why we cant hit a cows backside with a banjo,

 

[Icy Gull]

I'm sure they do, but how much? Maupay should be practicing his shooting from 8a.m. to 6.30pm every day in training. Well he would be if I was manager. A bit of Brian Clough direct speaking/action really is what is needed now. Then, if he still doesn't improve, sell and replace him.

I think you’ll find that we have moved away from dinosaur managers

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

The old chestnut that penalties don’t count.

I didnt say they didnt count, I just said that 4 goals from open play when the midfield create numerous chances every game is simply not close to being good enough. If you ever watch Zamora, Ward or Byrne, never mind Murray you would know how many goals they would have scored with this midfield. There is no point putting hands over our eyes and pretend we dont see it. The first thing to do is see a problem before you can fix it.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

I think you’ll find that we have moved away from dinosaur managers

Oh for a Dinosaur who won two Champions Leagues with a club the size of Nottingham Forest.

 

[Swansman]

In your opinion, does bringing Murray back to the dressing room to coach and help the forwards in training have any merit?

Murray would need to want to do this rather than realistically play at the end of his career and it would be expensive at £50k a week but any improvement obviously pays for itself.


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GP said only weeks ago that GM wants to play "as much as he wants in his last or maybe last few years as a footballer" so I'm hoping he gets another loan deal somewhere. If he could help the other strikers or not? Hard to tell, he's obviously a natural scorer but is he good at explaining it to others? Who knows.

That said, him signing a new contract early last year despite everyone knowing he would play very little indicates that Potter likes having him around and it wouldnt surprise me one bit if he is a part of the coaching staff (senior team or youths) next season. For now however, lets hope that he gets what he wants - to play football.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

You don't (shouldn't ) get to be in Premier League without excellent technical skills. Between the ears must be a big factor. Can almost guarantee shots that hit row z in a match hit the back of the net in training.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

You don't (shouldn't ) get to be in Premier League without excellent technical skills. Between the ears must be a big factor. Can almost guarantee shots that hit row z in a match hit the back of the net in training.

It's the failure to know where the keeper is when Maupay shoots. He just trusts to luck. Ward, Byrne, Murray, Zamora would place the ball not trust to luck.

 

[Seasider78]

I don't think scoring goals is the real issue it has been the defence and leaking some VERY soft goals that has been the issue. Sure more goals would have helped that's a no brainer but look at the table and we have scored more goals than 6 other teams , we have scored as many as Palace and are a few (5) less than West Ham, Southampton & Everton. It should be an easier to fix defending (and not giving away corners, freekicks and penalties) than spending (gambling) the 30-40 million on a striker especially as we have some reasonable defenders to start with.

That said with the strikers that we have Tau, Connolly and Maupay (and to some extend Trossard) would all benefit from quickly released balls to feet and into space rather than trying to compete in the air.

I think the timing of our misses and mistakes in games is often what hurts us. Yesterday was a good example where we made harder work of it as AGAIN we could not close out a half and Maupay missed a chance to put the opposition out of sight and coast out the game. Yesterday we got the result but in so many games this season that has cost us.

A striker who can take chances makes a huge difference to a clubs fortunes. Look at Southampton and the difference having the quality of Ings up front or how Wolves have plummeted since they lost Jimenez.

Apart from a quality striker I see little difference between the quality of our squads and theirs yet when they have had a quality striker both have been closer to the European spots than the relegation ones.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I don't think scoring goals is the real issue it has been the defence and leaking some VERY soft goals that has been the issue.

And it’s not even the amount of goals we’re conceding, it’s that when we do, they seem to always cost us 1 or 2 points.

We were the worst side in the whole of the football pyramid for conceding goals to the amount of shots taken (I’ve not checked this stat post Leeds).

These goals come from 3 dodgy penalties (one 3 mins after injury time has ended, one outside the box and one from a diving Palace player).

But things have improved at the back. The introduction of Sanchez has clearly helped in addition to Dunk finding his best form having been guilty of criminally not blocking assists in the games against Sheff Utd, Wolves & West Ham. Webster and Veltman have been pretty good but White (when at CB) and Burn have made a number of basic blunders that hopefully, we will not see a repeat of.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I didnt say they didnt count, I just said that 4 goals from open play when the midfield create numerous chances every game is simply not close to being good enough. If you ever watch Zamora, Ward or Byrne, never mind Murray you would know how many goals they would have scored with this midfield. There is no point putting hands over our eyes and pretend we dont see it. The first thing to do is see a problem before you can fix it.

To quote your favourite manager

. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes.

 

[vagabond]

This.

And I stand by my opinion that people saying "we need to invest more" surely are free to do so themselves, I doubt TB would say no to any donor offering the club £100m or so. To demand that he should invest more money from his own wallet than he already is is a very weird behaviour and they urgently need to be taught some manners. Tony is not asset stripping or making tons of millions from this club, he is giving it money, people have no right to ask for more. If they say the club "should" invest more money, they could at least stop their pathetic toe tapping and tell it like it really is - they would prefer Tony to go and some richer guy to take over

The "Potter out" and "everyone is shit" stuff dont bother me half as much as the ones saying "Tony needs to invest more money". I think its ****ish beyond belief. They should go with one of the three other options: invest the money yourself or be honest and say you want TB out or just shut the **** up and be happy that someone is already splashing a lot of cash on your club because very few football clubs out there is lucky enough to have someone like TB.

Boom. Exactly.

 

[Icy Gull]

Oh for a Dinosaur who won two Champions Leagues with a club the size of Nottingham Forest.

Yeah but he then got them relegated and lost it completely. That style of management doesn’t work any more. Name me one recently successful top division manager like that

Don’t suggest Mourinho either, he has won nothing recently and is very unlikely to do so again imo

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

To quote your favourite manager

. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes.

Be careful not to put words into people's mouths. I didn't say he was my favourite manager. I did however note that he won two Champions Leagues with a club the size of Forest and so he might be someone to learn something from. I also would agree with that sentiment. Players win matches. Clough knew that and was well ahead of his time in pass / move football. He also once told his centre forward " I dont pay you to take corners, I pay you to score goals, now get in the box". Common sense can get someone a long way, the problem is that it is not very common.

 

[vagabond]

I’m in this camp.

The subconscious message from the Manure game where we should have had at least 6 goals was ‘we’re never going to score’. This has been reinforced in other games such as the Liverpool and Sheff Utd home fixtures.

We are in need of a 4-0 or 5-0 to remedy this situation where the likes of Groß, Lalllana, Tross, Zeqiri & Tau score or one of our main strikers such as Connolly or Maupay gets a hat-trick.

Until then, I fear that the players will be bottling it with each shot they take.

So true.

We are due to give some team an almighty walloping.
Even yesterday, as I said in the match day thread, we could have conceivably scored 5.

This is happening too often and becoming the norm psychologically. You do wonder, if we do suddenly have a couple of games where we convert and absolutely pulverise a team by 5 or 6, if may flick a switch mentally with our players. And let’s not forget, we have a very very young squad here. Aside from Dunk. even the most experienced (Welbeck, Lallana) are hardly playing.

If Potter can switch this mentality, we’ll be on the verge of something very special. Especially with the exciting team we’re building for next season.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

Yeah but he then got them relegated and lost it completely. That style of management doesn’t work any more. Name me one recently successful top division manager like that

Don’t suggest Mourinho either, he has won nothing recently and is very unlikely to do so again imo

I didnt suggest "a manager like that". I suggested there are things to learn from managers like that. We have to face it, Maupay cant hit a cows arse with banjo. So get him on the practice ground for hours on end practicing his finishing. If he doesn't improve sell him and replace him,