[Politics] Who will be our next Prime Minister?

[DavidinSouthampton]

There has been a lot of lies on both sides. I reluctantly voted in but have crossed over because of the attitude of our “partners” in the EU towards May, Raab & co.

If you want to see how strongly some people feel about the UK coming out then let’s do what you suggest.

At the moment you only see the remain protesters at the gates of parliament. If the winners of the referendum are cheated by the politicians there is likely to be civil unrest.

On point 1, anybody with any sense would not have expected from the start that the EU would abandon some of their most strongly held principles just for the sake of making life a bit easier for the UK. They have the welfare and the future of the other 26 to prioritise. It is us who are leaving. Rather than Europe being Bully Boys, we have been asking for things that were never going to happen. Raab proved what an idiot he is with his recent comments about not realising how much trade with Europe went through Dover-Calais - totally out of touch with reality.

On point 2, I did not suggest anything.

On point 3, I fully agree there will be civil unrest if we don't leave, and there will also be civil unrest if we do leave. Our Government is in a no-win situation, the country is hopelessly divided and it will take someone with a great deal more talent than any of the politicians who are currently in the frame on any side to make things better.

 

[drew]

people quick to mention Churchill's call United States of Europe overlook he didnt want to be in it

Where did he say he didn't want to be in it?

 

[drew]

There has been a lot of lies on both sides. I reluctantly voted in but have crossed over because of the attitude of our “partners” in the EU towards May, Raab & co.

If you want to see how strongly some people feel about the UK coming out then let’s do what you suggest.

At the moment you only see the remain protesters at the gates of parliament. If the winners of the referendum are cheated by the politicians there is likely to be civil unrest.

I really don't get what you mean by 'the attitude' of EU partners. Brexiteers have been very disparaging of the EU and it's representatives but you seem to ignore that. I don't see that using the so called attitude of the other negotiating team as a good reason to change your mind. Begs the question as to what persuaded you vote remain in the first place.

 

[Gwylan]

Where did he say he didn't want to be in it?

It's a bit misleading to say that he didn't want the UK to be part of the United States of Europe. He did indeed say that there should be a closer European Union, in a speech in 1930, and that the Britain shouldn't be part of it "We are with Europe but not in it," but he didn't stop there.

In 1946, he gave what's called the United States of Europe speech, in which he said that France and Germany should take the lead, but gave no indication what the UK's involvement should be - he didn't say that we should be in it or out of it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

There has been a lot of lies on both sides. I reluctantly voted in but have crossed over because of the attitude of our “partners” in the EU towards May, Raab & co.

If you want to see how strongly some people feel about the UK coming out then let’s do what you suggest.

At the moment you only see the remain protesters at the gates of parliament. If the winners of the referendum are cheated by the politicians there is likely to be civil unrest.

There are no 'Winners' of a referendum. The referendum is an answered question, everyone who voted still has a say, that is democracy. We have an opposition in Parliament in this country, because even the 'losers' in an election have a say. A referendum does not render half the population without a say - that attitude is completely undemocratic and why referendums are so divisive.

All the referendum did was advise Parliament that 52% of people favoured leaving the EU. That is it. The other 48% and those that didn't vote are not losers and it sickens me in a democracy that the suggestion is they have no say.

In real democratic terms we should be looking at as soft a brexit as possibly because if we are leaving the EU, that is the best scenario for the 48%, and delivers leaving the EU to the 52%. That is democratic, that is democracy. The Tories however have needed to find a deal to appease their hardliners, not the electorate or the people. Hence this stinks to high heaven and to blame the EU negotiators is frankly ridiculous.

 

[Wardy's twin]

But to be fair he was relatively ambiguous whether this country should be part of it.

( bit like Corbyn )

Corbyn is f***ing useless as opposition and will be worse in office.

 

[beorhthelm]

Where did he say he didn't want to be in it?

in the speech he said France and Germany take the lead and finished "Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia - for then indeed all would be well - must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine.". pretty clear he saw our role on the outside.

he was PM when the Steal and Coal Community was formed and much of the time leading up to the Treaty of Rome, and didnt join either. it was Macmillian who went along asking to join late in the day, to be snubbed by deGaulle

 

[Dave the OAP]

Hunt.

 

[Taybha]

Does it even matter anymore ? Lies spin broken promises , anyone can do that . Tories admittedly do seem slightly more adept at it mind.

 

[The Clamp]

I seriously doubt that Churchill would be a remainer.

A common assumption.

 

[Hugo Rune]

All the referendum did was advise Parliament that 52% of people favoured leaving the EU. That is it. The other 48% and those that didn't vote are not losers and it sickens me in a democracy that the suggestion is they have no say.

In real democratic terms we should be looking at as soft a brexit as possibly because if we are leaving the EU, that is the best scenario for the 48%, and delivers leaving the EU to the 52%. That is democratic, that is democracy. The Tories however have needed to find a deal to appease their hardliners, not the electorate or the people. Hence this stinks to high heaven and to blame the EU negotiators is frankly ridiculous.

The Tories? You mean Theresa May who in not listening or reaching out to anyone who was not hard brexit, has probably killed the damned thing off once the electorate get hold of it again. I hope leavers lay the blame on her and her party for ever more if they don’t get the result they want.

 

[Gazwag]

On point 3, I fully agree there will be civil unrest if we don't leave, and there will also be civil unrest if we do leave. Our Government is in a no-win situation, the country is hopelessly divided and it will take someone with a great deal more talent than any of the politicians who are currently in the frame on any side to make things better.

IMO the answer is simple, draw a line between Southampton and Hull, force all of the unemployed, too fat to work, university layabouts and not really disabled to either build a big wall or dig a large river along that line. Leavers have the top half away from Europe, stayers have the bottom half near Europe. One massive door/bridge in the middle as the border. Job done everybody's happy.

 

[clapham_gull]

Hunt.

Oh, Rees Mogg.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

There has been a lot of lies on both sides. I reluctantly voted in but have crossed over because of the attitude of our “partners” in the EU towards May, Raab & co.

If you want to see how strongly some people feel about the UK coming out then let’s do what you suggest.

At the moment you only see the remain protesters at the gates of parliament. If the winners of the referendum are cheated by the politicians there is likely to be civil unrest.

There will not be civil unrest, it is just project fear.

 

[maltaseagull]

Who knows, but I can GUARANTEE they will be a self-serving **** that doesn’t give one nanogram of shite what is best for the general public of this country, or any other.

Corbyn?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

There are no 'Winners' of a referendum. The referendum is an answered question, everyone who voted still has a say, that is democracy. We have an opposition in Parliament in this country, because even the 'losers' in an election have a say. A referendum does not render half the population without a say - that attitude is completely undemocratic and why referendums are so divisive.

All the referendum did was advise Parliament that 52% of people favoured leaving the EU. That is it. The other 48% and those that didn't vote are not losers and it sickens me in a democracy that the suggestion is they have no say.

In real democratic terms we should be looking at as soft a brexit as possibly because if we are leaving the EU, that is the best scenario for the 48%, and delivers leaving the EU to the 52%. That is democratic, that is democracy. The Tories however have needed to find a deal to appease their hardliners, not the electorate or the people. Hence this stinks to high heaven and to blame the EU negotiators is frankly ridiculous.

Puketastic. So the minority losing 48% get to define what is an acceptable outcome for the majority winning 52 .. which leaves no one really happy (see current situation). Obviously if Remain had won by a small margin you would be arguing that the Uk should stay in but adopt very Eurosceptic policies to satisfy the minority ... yeah right

 

[Bold Seagull]

Puketastic. So the minority losing 48% get to define what is an acceptable outcome for the majority winning 52 .. which leaves no one really happy (see current situation). Obviously if Remain had won by a small margin you would be arguing that the Uk should stay in but adopt very Eurosceptic policies to satisfy the minority ... yeah right

No one was ever going to be really happy JCFG. The 52% had a myriad of reasons why they wanted to leave, had the result been 90 - 10, the 90% wouldn't be able to agree what Leave should look like. As per normal, you have taken a post and twisted it for your own typical straw man response. If we leave the EU, the 52% have DEFINED the outcome because we will have left, all I said was you cannot just ignore the 48% as if they don't exist or their opinions no longer matter. That isn't democratic.

 

[Gwylan]

he was PM when the Steal and Coal Community was formed and much of the time leading up to the Treaty of Rome, and didnt join either. it was Macmillian who went along asking to join late in the day, to be snubbed by deGaulle

Attlee was PM at the time when ESCC was formed - and declined to take part in it - although this was Churchill's view too.

It should be pointed out that nearly every senior British politician was sceptical about these European initiatives. The exception was Macmillan who, apparently, considered resigning from government over the issue. The general view was that all these European chappies were very clever and very idealistic but all their grand ideas were bound to fail.

Macmillan, alone it seems, wondered what would happen if it all worked and where the UK would be with a strong Europe.

Anyone interested in this should read Peter Hennessy's superb Having it So Good, his history of Britain in the 50s - it's very illuminating.

 

[KZNSeagull]

And while we're on the history of the EU can we squash this myth that in 1975 we were voting for the common market and not the European Union. The very first item in the Treaty of Rome is a call for ever closer union between the countries. To say that this is something sneakily foisted on us after we joined is total nonsense.

I am not disputing what you say, but the question in the 1975 referendum was "Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?", so I would imagine that many if not most people at the time thought they were voting for the Common Market.

 

[clapham_gull]

Obviously if Remain had won by a small margin you would be arguing that the Uk should stay in but adopt very Eurosceptic policies to satisfy the minority ... yeah right

Well that's my position. Remember what got us here. EU needs sorting out every now and then and needs "Eurosceptic" members internally to apply a break.

You don't sort the EU out by having a hissy fit and taking your ball home.

We have now become a very small country with an internally looking EU on the one side, an internally looking USA on the other and China where they have somehow fused dictatorship with Capitalism. I imagine Scotland will piss off within the next 20 years.

My worry is that the UK is there for the taking now and rather than the non EU economies of the world having us on speed dial, they are probably very happy one of the strongest economies within the EU has broken away.

It's made us weaker and the EU as well. You must be so proud