[Politics] Who will be our next Prime Minister?

[Norman Potting]

Chris Hughton or Enrest.

 

[beorhthelm]

It was clear that it wasn't just a Common Market. There is documentation to show that. Winston Churchill wanted a United States of Europe back in the 50s, to halt the threat of Russia.

people quick to mention Churchill's call United States of Europe overlook he didnt want to be in it

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Churchill was dead long before we joined.

Correct. I said the 1950s which I believe, were before 1965 when he died.
The European Court of Justice was formed in 1950, with Winston Churchill as one of the signatories.

 

[Justice]

Correct. I said the 1950s which I believe, were before 1965 when he died.
The European Court of Justice was formed in 1950, with Winston Churchill as one of the signatories.

Correct, Churchill also said what about Europe though?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Correct, Churchill also said what about Europe though?

 

[Gwylan]

The European Court of Justice was formed in 1950, with Winston Churchill as one of the signatories.

You're mixing up the European Court of Justice with the European Court of Human Rights. The UK wasn't one of the signatories of the ECJ as it was for EEC members only (it was set up in 1952 BTW).

The ECHR was set up in 1959 so Churchill wasn't one of the signatories for that either but he was part of the conference that produced the European Convention of Human Rights. Indeed, the person who drafted the bulk of the convention was British lawyer, David Maxwell-Fyfe, later to be Tory Home Secretary.

You're not the first person to mix up the ECJ and ECHR and you won't be the last.

And while we're on the history of the EU can we squash this myth that in 1975 we were voting for the common market and not the European Union. The very first item in the Treaty of Rome is a call for ever closer union between the countries. To say that this is something sneakily foisted on us after we joined is total nonsense.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You're mixing up the European Court of Justice with the European Court of Human Rights. The UK wasn't one of the signatories of the ECJ as it was for EEC members only (it was set up in 1952 BTW).

The ECHR was set up in 1959 so Churchill wasn't one of the signatories for that either but he was part of the conference that produced the European Convention of Human Rights. Indeed, the person who drafted the bulk of the convention was British lawyer, David Maxwell-Fyfe, later to be Tory Home Secretary.

You're not the first person to mix up the ECJ and ECHR and you won't be the last.

And while we're on the history of the EU can we squash this myth that in 1975 we were voting for the common market and not the European Union. The very first item in the Treaty of Rome is a call for ever closer union between the countries. To say that this is something sneakily foisted on us after we joined is total nonsense.

Thank you for the clarification. It's difficult to sort out truth from faction.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Shame you can’t dig up Churchill.

Who was the first Tory who wanted to form a United States of Europe

 

[Wardy's twin]

A lot of discussion about historical inaccuracies going on but what we should be focusing on is the car crash that is about to happen and how it can be avoided.

We have 80 Tory MPs who are hell bent on getting their ideas through irrespective of the damage it does to Britain's economy because they know they don't need to worry about the pounds & pence like the majority.

While the countries focus is on Brexit the a lot of services have been grinding to a halt over the last 2 years particularly the NHS which will get so bad it will be privatised and you know who will make money from that and which groups will suffer more.

Problem is we have no creditable opposition , time to forget party politics and get a government of unity in.

Yes I am a Remainer. No I don't believe the EU is perfect , far from it , but no one has shown me a good/proven economic argument for leaving.

Regards getting our country back .... what does that mean in our increasingly globalised world? We are driven by world economics and rich people .

 

[GT49er]

Who was the first Tory who wanted to form a United States of Europe

He wanted to keep India in the Empire too! And I think you'll find that his version of a united Europe featured a far more dominant role for Britain than the EEC!

 

[clapham_gull]

And while we're on the history of the EU can we squash this myth that in 1975 we were voting for the common market and not the European Union. The very first item in the Treaty of Rome is a call for ever closer union between the countries. To say that this is something sneakily foisted on us after we joined is total nonsense.

No, but the Union has got stronger over time and (unlike other countries) the population hasn't been given much of a chance of a say, beyond being able to vote for Non EU parties with no chance of power.

This has always been a very Eurosceptic country and politicians from both parties have utlised that for their own means by grandstanding against the EU.

If the population had been allowed referendum on specific issues along the way - we probably wouldn't be where we are now.

 

[Wardy's twin]

He wanted to keep India in the Empire too! And I think you'll find that his version of a united Europe featured a far more dominant role for Britain than the EEC!

Which we might have had if we had joined early....

I am not an admirer of Churchill, he bound this country together when it was needed for which everyone should be grateful but some of his politics stank....

 

[clapham_gull]

Who was the first Tory who wanted to form a United States of Europe

But to be fair he was relatively ambiguous whether this country should be part of it.

( bit like Corbyn )

 

[Leighgull]

I pray we get someone with the guts to simply reverse the referendum, not hold a second one. It’s what the country needs and I want a leader who is prepared to annoy the right wing donkeys and get the job done. We need a Churchillian resolve now, a spine of steel capable of weathering the backlash in order to restore some sanity to the U.K. and not just do a May and placate the idiot masses by going for Leave whatever the consequence.

I seriously doubt that Churchill would be a remainer.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

How wasn't it fair

Everyone had a choice and the choice was out.
Can't be fairer than that can you

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

So you're discounting the out and out lies which were told by the BREXIT side in particular, the Potential (just about certain) Russian Interference, the alleged illegal spending...… I could go on.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Well, it needs to be someone who suits the media age, with charm and TV friendly looks. So, Michael Gove probably.

This is a joke that I'm not quite understanding, right?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I seriously doubt that Churchill would be a remainer.

It is a historical fact that Churchill was a heavyweight supporter of the European Project immediately after the war. I seriously doubt that he would want to mess it all up now! He would be much more likely to stay in there and reform it from within, which he might well have been able to do because he would not have had us on the fringes of Europe for so long. He would have been leading Europe by the nose.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

You're mixing up the European Court of Justice with the European Court of Human Rights. The UK wasn't one of the signatories of the ECJ as it was for EEC members only (it was set up in 1952 BTW).

The ECHR was set up in 1959 so Churchill wasn't one of the signatories for that either but he was part of the conference that produced the European Convention of Human Rights. Indeed, the person who drafted the bulk of the convention was British lawyer, David Maxwell-Fyfe, later to be Tory Home Secretary.

You're not the first person to mix up the ECJ and ECHR and you won't be the last.

And while we're on the history of the EU can we squash this myth that in 1975 we were voting for the common market and not the European Union. The very first item in the Treaty of Rome is a call for ever closer union between the countries. To say that this is something sneakily foisted on us after we joined is total nonsense.

This is such basic history. It's utterly surreal that people seem to be getting this stuff wrong.

 

[Leighgull]

So you're discounting the out and out lies which were told by the BREXIT side in particular, the Potential (just about certain) Russian Interference, the alleged illegal spending...… I could go on.

There has been a lot of lies on both sides. I reluctantly voted in but have crossed over because of the attitude of our “partners” in the EU towards May, Raab & co.

If you want to see how strongly some people feel about the UK coming out then let’s do what you suggest.

At the moment you only see the remain protesters at the gates of parliament. If the winners of the referendum are cheated by the politicians there is likely to be civil unrest.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So you're discounting the out and out lies which were told by the BREXIT side in particular, the Potential (just about certain) Russian Interference, the alleged illegal spending...… I could go on.

He's also discounting the many Europeans who have been here for decades, married to British subjects, paying taxes and NI, but were not allowed a vote. There are over 3 million of them.

Also the British immigrants to Europe, who were also denied a vote, if they'd lived there for 15 years, despite how many times they returned during those years. I say immigrants, but others prefer to call them expats.

Under Theresa May's deal, we all lose Freedom of Movement.