[TV] Who do you think you are. Josh Widdicombe.

[Monkey Man]

Family trees are interesting to a point but I can't bear this "my lot came over with the Normans" or "it's been proven that I'm a Viking" nonsense. As others have pointed out, we have hundreds of thousands of grandparents, even if you only go back a relatively short period of time.

I was listening to the radio version of How to Argue With a Racist by Adam Rutherford and he made several interesting points about all this, including that it's entirely possible that you have no shared DNA (beyond the obvious human stuff) with one or more of your great grandparents. So in as little as four generations, the familial biological link can disappear.

 

[Hamilton]

Family trees are interesting to a point but I can't bear this "my lot came over with the Normans" or "it's been proven that I'm a Viking" nonsense. As others have pointed out, we have hundreds of thousands of grandparents, even if you only go back a relatively short period of time.

I was listening to the radio version of How to Argue With a Racist by Adam Rutherford and he made several interesting points about all this, including that it's entirely possible that you have no shared DNA (beyond the obvious human stuff) with one or more of your great grandparents. So in as little as four generations, the familial biological link can disappear.

I don't think that's strictly true though is it? Just doing sums in my head.

If you go back 13 generations as Josh Widdicombe has done then I think you can only have a potential 16,000 odd grand parents in the lineage.

If we accept an estimate that around 100 billion people have lived on earth, and that the global population didn't hit 1 billion until 1809, then at least circa 75% of those 100 billion have lived with the time frame that Josh has searched.

That still means that there was only a 1 in 4.5m chance that Josh Widdicombe was related to royalty. That's pretty steep.

Amateur maths at work here and not my field etc.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I don't think that's strictly true though is it? Just doing sums in my head.

If you go back 13 generations as Josh Widdicombe has done then I think you can only have a potential 16,000 odd grand parents in the lineage.

If we accept an estimate that around 100 billion people have lived on earth, and that the global population didn't hit 1 billion until 1809, then at least circa 75% of those 100 billion have lived with the time frame that Josh has searched.

That still means that there was only a 1 in 4.5m chance that Josh Widdicombe was related to royalty. That's pretty steep.

Amateur maths at work here and not my field etc.

I wish I had you as my maths teacher 50 years ago

 

[Algernon]

I loved the fact that one of his ancestors was "Groom of the stool" to King Charles and this meant that Josh's ancestor had to accompany the King to the toilet whenever the Royal kids needed dropping off at the beach.
Apparently it was a rather prestigious position.

 

[Monkey Man]

I don't think that's strictly true though is it? Just doing sums in my head.

If you go back 13 generations as Josh Widdicombe has done then I think you can only have a potential 16,000 odd grand parents in the lineage.

If we accept an estimate that around 100 billion people have lived on earth, and that the global population didn't hit 1 billion until 1809, then at least circa 75% of those 100 billion have lived with the time frame that Josh has searched.

That still means that there was only a 1 in 4.5m chance that Josh Widdicombe was related to royalty. That's pretty steep.

Amateur maths at work here and not my field etc.

I'm pretty embarrassing at maths so I can't argue for my hypoythesis or against yours – I suspect we're both partly right.

I know the maths gets complicated by the fact that as your family tree goes back, it stops looking like a tree and more like a tangled bush because so many people within your lienage are inter-related. I'm not talking about inbreeding (necessarily) – I mean that it's entirely possibly that two great grandparents on different sides may have a shared grandparent of their own.

 

[The Clamp]

You don’t have to look back too far to find shared relations. Look around you next time you’re in in crowd or walking through town. There aren’t that many variations in physical features. Lots of people look very similar to one another.

 

[Baldseagull]

I don't think that's strictly true though is it? Just doing sums in my head.

If you go back 13 generations as Josh Widdicombe has done then I think you can only have a potential 16,000 odd grand parents in the lineage.

If we accept an estimate that around 100 billion people have lived on earth, and that the global population didn't hit 1 billion until 1809, then at least circa 75% of those 100 billion have lived with the time frame that Josh has searched.

That still means that there was only a 1 in 4.5m chance that Josh Widdicombe was related to royalty. That's pretty steep.

Amateur maths at work here and not my field etc.

You have used a global population, whereas in reality, most with British Heritage would find only a few, if any, ancestors not born in the British Isles. Even if we look at Asian heritage populations like Southall in London, most of the families originate from 2 or 3 villages in the Punjab. People just didn't move about quite so much in the past. Even when they do, they often stick with cultural heritage when marrying.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You have used a global population, whereas in reality, most with British Heritage would find only a few, if any, ancestors not born in the British Isles. Even if we look at Asian heritage populations like Southall in London, most of the families originate from 2 or 3 villages in the Punjab. People just didn't move about quite so much in the past. Even when they do, they often stick with cultural heritage when marrying.

I disagree. My family come from East and West Sussex, namely around Lewes, and Henfield/Steyning/ Ashurst, going back five generations.
I had my DNA tested which has produced third and fourth cousins on both sides.
It also said I was 10% Norwegian.
Normans, Saxons, Angles, Jutes, Romans and Celts etc make up Britain.

 

[Hamilton]

You have used a global population, whereas in reality, most with British Heritage would find only a few, if any, ancestors not born in the British Isles. Even if we look at Asian heritage populations like Southall in London, most of the families originate from 2 or 3 villages in the Punjab. People just didn't move about quite so much in the past. Even when they do, they often stick with cultural heritage when marrying.

Good point. You'd have to factor in regional populations, although it wouldn't be a simple split as we'd need to know where growth was at its highest at different stages of development. I wouldn't know where to get that data, but I'd hazard a guess that it's still a 1 in 100,000 chance that you're related to royalty within the last 500 years.

Most of us are mongrels. My Dad did our family tree. He was meticulous and went back to 1690. Turned up f*ck all.

 

[Nitram]

Having lived in Sussex the majority of my life my DNA shows I’m 46% Scottish, 43% Irish, 3% Welsh and 8% English/ European.
I’ve traced lineage to Ireland and America. I found my ancestry story fascinating and unexpected.

 

[Baldseagull]

I disagree. My family come from East and West Sussex, namely around Lewes, and Henfield/Steyning/ Ashurst, going back five generations.
I had my DNA tested which has produced third and fourth cousins on both sides.
It also said I was 10% Norwegian.
Normans, Saxons, Angles, Jutes, Romans and Celts etc make up Britain.

Well done if you traced your family tree back through the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Romans. I know we all have heritage from somewhere else if we go back far enough, our species originated in Africa, but what I meant was, for the time we can reasonably expect to trace some of our tree back to, it is most likely to be largely, if not wholly, from within the British Isles. As you have found, your last five generations were all within Sussex, if you could find another generation, they were most probably from Sussex too. Perhaps I should have said, people didn't move about quite so much in the 400 years before the 20th century.

 

[BeHereNow]

According to maths, we pretty much all have a common ancestor around 1000 years ago, so that means we are all descended from royalty at some stage. https://youtu.be/15Uce4fG4R0

I suppose it’s the time in between which determines one’s nationality/ethnicity. I’m 85% English. English is mainly Germanic and Celtic tribes mixed together. Vikings didn’t leave as much of a mark and Romans much less so. It’s an ongoing science.

I’ve seen a tree where I am descended from ‘the peerage’ and some notable people, the wife of King Harold being one, I don’t feel special though as most people on here probably are as well!

I guess it follows that the closer in time a famous ancestor is, the more unique and special it is. For example, there won’t be as many people descended from Winston Churchill as my ancestor Major Thomas Christian (related to the one on the Bounty).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well done if you traced your family tree back through the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Romans. I know we all have heritage from somewhere else if we go back far enough, our species originated in Africa, but what I meant was, for the time we can reasonably expect to trace some of our tree back to, it is most likely to be largely, if not wholly, from within the British Isles. As you have found, your last five generations were all within Sussex, if you could find another generation, they were most probably from Sussex too. Perhaps I should have said, people didn't move about quite so much in the 400 years before the 20th century.

Of course I didn’t trace any Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Normans, Celts or Romans, but history tells us, that being British makes us a mongrel race.

 

[amexer]

I gave up tracing mainly because I dont think I was doing it right. Joined Ancestry site also got DNA. Since that have received emails saying more people of interest . All very well but everytime I look into it they want another £59

 

[Baldseagull]

Of course I didn’t trace any Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Normans, Celts or Romans, but history tells us, that being British makes us a mongrel race.

I agree, but you posted before, quoting my post about people not moving around so much in the past, with the opening words, "I disagree". So I clarified what I meant by "in the past". I was and am not claiming any kind of racial purity.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree, but you posted before, quoting my post about people not moving around so much in the past, with the opening words, "I disagree". So I clarified what I meant by "in the past". I was and am not claiming any kind of racial purity.

I still disagree. The peasants, farm workers etc didn’t move around, but plenty did. Jane Austen had people going to Bath, London, Derbyshire and Yorkshire in her novels. Many moved because of famines, and that period was the peak of exploration.
Nelson had 22 different nationalities on board Victory at the Battle of Trafalgar.

 

[Wozza]

I gave up tracing mainly because I dont think I was doing it right. Joined Ancestry site also got DNA. Since that have received emails saying more people of interest . All very well but everytime I look into it they want another £59

I bought a DNA test when they were on offer.... and decided against using it. The future data sharing implications are horrendous.

But I guess that's another thread...

 

[Baldseagull]

I still disagree. The peasants, farm workers etc didn’t move around, but plenty did. Jane Austen had people going to Bath, London, Derbyshire and Yorkshire in her novels. Many moved because of famines, and that period was the peak of exploration.
Nelson had 22 different nationalities on board Victory at the Battle of Trafalgar.

I guess your family tree must be special then, all within Sussex.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I guess your family tree must be special then, all within Sussex.

On the contrary, I think it’s boring.

 

[Baldseagull]

On the contrary, I think it’s boring.

But with such a mobile population, with people moving between Bath and London, Derbyshire and Yorkshire, it is a miracle that you didn't find a Japanese Uncle somewhere, or a Bangladeshi Aunty.