Who are the biggest club on the South Coast? (and where do we sit....)

[GoldWithFalmer]

Don't bring the Zenith Data Systems Cup into play !

see post 87 on this thread

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

May be 10pts per year in eruopean comps?

Personally, I think 10pts may be stretching it. However, I fully appreciate that Southampton had a very good team in the early to mid-80s, qualifying for Europe through their League placing, and it's somewhat unfair that a team that performs well within the top flight would not be acknowledged for their high league placings just because they don't happen to win the League.

How about as a compromise: 5 points for a top 6 finish?

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Brighton and Hove Albion,Albion Reserves,Albion Youth and Albion Juniors.

Major fail....you forgot Brighton Ladies!!

 

[Mackenzie]

By your logic, Egypt, Uruguay and Japan would have more points than Spain, making them bigger.

Thinking Pompey are bigger than Saints is fine, while I personally disagree I can see why people might say Pompey too based on the last decade.

But to devise your own little crazy point scoring system, and then use it to prove your point, is weak.

Actually I think it gives a bit of order to the question, perhaps his scoring system could be tweaked or more variables added, but to me it looks pretty fair......we'd be trailing a long way behind btw.

 

[SouthamptonGuy]

Actually I think it gives a bit of order to the question, perhaps his scoring system could be tweaked or more variables added, but to me it looks pretty fair......we'd be trailing a long way behind btw.

Fair comment.

For me deciding on who is the biggest club, I would place a far larger emphasis on the last 20/30 years far more than what happened in the 40s/50s/60s and 70s.
But that's just me.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

OMG Here we go again...my club is bigger than yours....jeez in the long run,does it matter what your club has done in the past...as Fatboy Slim would say...."Right here...Right now.................................................................Anyways..My Dad is bigger than your Dad...so Nary,Nary..BOO!

 

[Working class pride]

I chose to look at averages over a season rather than one off games, I believe that shows a more accurate representation over each season.

As I showed in my post earlier yes, you did pull in bigger crowds than us on average 4 times in the late 1970's and in 1980.
In two of those seasons you had larger average attendances by less than 1000, which isn't really a strong argument for 'we were much bigger than you in the 1970's'.

Boasting you had bigger one off attendances despite Saints having larger average attendances is almost an admission, on your part, that back in the day your fans cherry picked the games they went to.

I think my earlier post was very clear, factual and non-biased. Saints have had bigger average attendances than Brighton for 50 of the last 61 seasons.

I haven't even offered any opinions in that post, just facts.

You miss the main point of my posts. Brighton got higher and similar attendances to Saints despite being in lower divisions. Can you ever imagine that Saints would get higher crowds than the Albion when in a lower division? No is the answer.

 

[Working class pride]

Fair comment.

For me deciding on who is the biggest club, I would place a far larger emphasis on the last 20/30 years far more than what happened in the 40s/50s/60s and 70s.
But that's just me.

Don't ever speak to a Shef Weds fan then as they won all their trophies during the Boer War!.. and us, we won the Charity Shield in 1910 when the football league champions played southern league champions, winners = champions of england.. its still our only true moment of glory, given that we lost the cup final.

 

[Mackenzie]

Fair comment.

For me deciding on who is the biggest club, I would place a far larger emphasis on the last 20/30 years far more than what happened in the 40s/50s/60s and 70s.
But that's just me.

I'd go along with that, we need a Duckworth-Lewis type equation to get this sorted out.....any takers?

 

[SouthamptonGuy]

You miss the main point of my posts. Brighton got higher and similar attendances to Saints despite being in lower divisions. Can you ever imagine that Saints would get higher crowds than the Albion when in a lower division? No is the answer.

Goodness. OK having higher, similar and lower attendances than Saints during the 1970's would mean that using attendances to measure which team is bigger between Brighton and Saints becomes a mute point. So you would need to move onto a different criteria. League position perhaps?

Posing hypothetical questions about attendances 'if this was different' or 'if that was different' over 30 years ago in no way, in my opinion, adds any substance to this thread.

 

[SouthamptonGuy]

Don't ever speak to a Shef Weds fan then as they won all their trophies during the Boer War!.. and us, we won the Charity Shield in 1910 when the football league champions played southern league champions, winners = champions of england.. its still our only true moment of glory, given that we lost the cup final.

Saints haven't won anything proper in over 30 years either

 

[Working class pride]

OK Saintsguy, fair enough, but can I ask the question in a different way. What is your explanation for a club that you think is smaller, getting higher and similar attendances than you when playing in lower divisions? Personally, I think the whole issue between saints, pompey, brighton, palace all 4 bald men arguing over a comb as they are all about the same medium size. However albion, because of population, the club with the biggest catchment area, and therefore potential. But so far Albion have done nothing with that support and are a long way behind pompey in terms of trophies and saints in terms of years in the top flight.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I'd go along with that, we need a Duckworth-Lewis type equation to get this sorted out.....any takers?

OK, I'll bite!

Average attendances 11-25 years ago (1.5 points for each 1,000)
Southampton approx 16,000 (24 points)
Portsmouth approx 11,000 (16.5 points)

Seasons in the top flight 11-25 years ago (1.5 points for each season)
Southampton 15 (22.5 points)
Portsmouth 1 (1.5 points)

Major trophies 11-25 years ago (5 points each)
Southampton 0 (0 points)
Portsmouth 0 (0 points)

All time top 6 finishes in top flight (5 points each)
Southampton 3 (15 points)
Portsmouth 5 (25 points)

Top 6 finishes 11-15 years ago (5 points each)
Southampton 0 (0 points)
Portsmouth 0 (0 points)

Top 6 finishes in last decade (5 points each)
Southampton 0 (0 points)
Portsmouth 0 (0 points)

 

[SouthamptonGuy]

OK Saintsguy, fair enough, but can I ask the question in a different way. What is your explanation for a club that you think is smaller, getting higher and similar attendances than you when playing in lower divisions? Personally, I think the whole issue between saints, pompey, brighton, palace all 4 bald men arguing over a comb as they are all about the same medium size. However albion, because of population, the club with the biggest catchment area, and therefore potential. But so far Albion have done nothing with that support and are a long way behind pompey in terms of trophies and saints in terms of years in the top flight.

A good fan base, pure and simple.

 

[krakatoa]

Let's not forget 'big club' Southampton had many years averaging only in the 14,000's in the top flight as recently as the 90's - way below Pompey's average crowds at ramshackle Fratton when they were lately in the prem.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I'll always see Portsmouth as being a run of the mill club. Ever since I started taking an interest in English football (1990), they have been scratching around for cash and pissing off creditors. Their recent success was built on borrowed millions and I am not talking about infrastructure to build a future for themselves. Spend millions on players and you are going to attract a crowd. Eventually, you may win a trophy if you are lucky. There are plenty of more attractive/stable sides that have not won a major trophy in the last decade.

Southampton are clearly the top dog of the South Coast, at the moment. I'll always see them as being a side that survived, in the top flight, on the last day thanks to luck and a prayer.

I see us usurping Portsmouth this season and for much of the next few years.

History, beyond the last 5 years or so, means very little in the modern day game. You either have a rich benefactor with your best interests at heart or you don't.

 

[SouthamptonGuy]

I'll always see Portsmouth as being a run of the mill club. Ever since I started taking an interest in English football (1990), they have been scratching around for cash and pissing off creditors. Their recent success was built on borrowed millions and I am not talking about infrastructure to build a future for themselves. Spend millions on players and you are going to attract a crowd. Eventually, you may win a trophy if you are lucky. There are plenty of more attractive/stable sides that have not won a major trophy in the last decade.

Southampton are clearly the top dog of the South Coast, at the moment. I'll always see them as being a side that survived, in the top flight, on the last day thanks to luck and a prayer.

I see us usurping Portsmouth this season and for much of the next few years.

History, beyond the last 5 years or so, means very little in the modern day game. You either have a rich benefactor with your best interests at heart or you don't.

And Matt Le Tiss!!

 

[Working class pride]

A good fan base, pure and simple.

Agreed and for me fanbase is the measure of a club, not trophies. Otherwise if it were trophies then Wimbledon would be bigger than palace, which, whilst amusing a point to run, is clearly not right! I will say about Saints tho' that the fanbase since st marys has surprised me, and Saints done very well on that front.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

And Matt Le Tiss!!

I neglected to mention him for some reason. I used to follow Southampton avidly and he was my boyhood idol.

Ostenstad, Van Gobbell, Benali, Le Tiss and so on... Jealous!

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I think the whole big club debate is pretty pointless anyway.

There are some huge clubs with global audiences and easily attract fellow countrymen that have never set foot in the city/town.

There are then clubs that don't have so much clout globally, but will always be up there in the top flight. Some also-rans that will flirt with midtable/relegation/second tier. Some clubs with potential to do that. Some clubs that will underachieve. Some clubs that will never grace the top flight or second tier - (Without some sort of cash rich/senseless figurehead)