"White Lives Matter Burnley" banner flown over the Etihad

[Bold Seagull]

If it’s a controversial term, why are people continuing to use it? I thought the general approach these days was not to offend people?

The trouble you have, being the intellectual sort that you are, is you can clearly see through the nuance associated with two simple words.

To me, as an uneducated working class lad without your higher performing mental capacity, white privilege means that by being white I have rights, or advantages over others, solely due to the colour of my skin.

Now, unless being white means I earn as much money as Premier League footballers or went to a private school and university like Diane Abbot’s kid, then we know there is no “privilege” derived from simply the colour of skin.

Uneducated working class lad without higher performing mental capacity - don’t you run an IT team?

 

[Bakero]

If it’s a controversial term, why are people continuing to use it? I thought the general approach these days was not to offend people?

The trouble you have, being the intellectual sort that you are, is you can clearly see through the nuance associated with two simple words.

To me, as an uneducated working class lad without your higher performing mental capacity, white privilege means that by being white I have rights, or advantages over others, solely due to the colour of my skin.


Now, unless being white means I earn as much money as Premier League footballers or went to a private school and university like Diane Abbot’s kid, then we know there is no “privilege” derived from simply the colour of skin.

Premier league salaries and Diane Abbot's son have bugger all to do with it. If you continue to wilfully misunderstand a term, you'll continue to be offended by it. Do you feel that your life is any way affected by the colour of your skin?


edit: I should add that I guess it's controversial by design- a way to make people sit up and take notice. White people have been free from having to think about their race as it was just "normal". As well as that it reframes the narrative. Rather than talk about the problems and disadvantages experienced by BAME communities, propagating a victim culture as some might say, it shifts the focus to those who are free from those issues.

 

[cunning fergus]

I would have thought it didn’t need spelling out that ‘white privilege’ doesn’t universally mean every single white person has been privileged. ‘Propagating’ - a term I will give you credit of having expertise in.

Maybe you are so high performing you can derive detail from a 2 word term that in one word classifies a whole group of races under a simple identifier, and connects that with “advantage”.

I guess you would be arguing next that Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean all black lives?

 

[cunning fergus]

Uneducated working class lad without higher performing mental capacity - don’t you run an IT team?

No I don’t, and proof if it was needed that what I do for work is frankly none of your business. Don’t believe the tittle tattle from the trolls on here. I will justify my point though about what in today’s terms of being educated means, in that I didn’t go to sixth form or have I been to university.....I was out working at 15 bumping tiles, before I got another job in building trade.

That’s privilege for you.

 

[cunning fergus]

Premier league salaries and Diane Abbot's son have bugger all to do with it. If you continue to wilfully misunderstand a term, you'll continue to be offended by it. Do you feel that your life is any way affected by the colour of your skin?


edit: I should add that I guess it's controversial by design- a way to make people sit up and take notice. White people have been free from having to think about their race as it was just "normal". As well as that it reframes the narrative. Rather than talk about the problems and disadvantages experienced by BAME communities, propagating a victim culture as some might say, it shifts the focus to those who are free from those issues.

What the f*** do you mean “wilfully misunderstand” it sounds like you are only a few steps from setting up the re-education camps, maybe with oversized ovens just in case the remedial class can’t process the message.

There’s the rub really you understand it because you completely agree with it, you’re not questioning it rationally because you don’t think there is anything to question.

I can see the angle about making people sit up and take notice though and when someone from Burnley did similar this week I bet you didn’t recognise his right to do the same.

So, therefore you and the others propagating “white privilege” arguments are no more than agitators deliberately polarising the race relations in this country. Good work.

 

[Bold Seagull]

No I don’t, and proof if it was needed that what I do for work is frankly none of your business. Don’t believe the tittle tattle from the trolls on here. I will justify my point though about what in today’s terms of being educated means, in that I didn’t go to sixth form or have I been to university.....I was out working at 15 bumping tiles, before I got another job in building trade.

That’s privilege for you.

Hey I was bumping out 2 brick layers at 15, although I got blamed for making the mortar too sloppy - wasn’t my fault as someone hadn’t covered the sand from torrential rain the night before so my measuring system was screwed. I also fell into a skip in a mini digger at 17, although that was my fault.

I thought you had previously mentioned being in IT, okay my bad.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Maybe you are so high performing you can derive detail from a 2 word term that in one word classifies a whole group of races under a simple identifier, and connects that with “advantage”.

I guess you would be arguing next that Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean all black lives?

But I can appreciate general advantage and disadvantage. When at a large scale a generalisation can be applied to race, but can narrow down to things like public or private education - discrimination exists in many forms, the key really is trying your best as a society that we are treated equal. I’m not sure anyone would disagree with that would they?

 

[Bakero]

What the f*** do you mean “wilfully misunderstand” it sounds like you are only a few steps from setting up the re-education camps, maybe with oversized ovens just in case the remedial class can’t process the message.

There’s the rub really you understand it because you completely agree with it, you’re not questioning it rationally because you don’t think there is anything to question.

I can see the angle about making people sit up and take notice though and when someone from Burnley did similar this week I bet you didn’t recognise his right to do the same.

So, therefore you and the others propagating “white privilege” arguments are no more than agitators deliberately polarising the race relations in this country. Good work.

When I first heard the phrase it grated. Like you, I thought it was a load of bollocks and not helpful in the grand scheme of things. I thought to myself, what about the poor white working class kids growing up in poverty around the country? How can you say they're privileged? I held that mindset for quite a while to be honest. Then I learnt a bit about what it actually meant and decided it was in fact quite reasonable. The entrenched clas system and inequality in the UK is still a major issue - but it's a separate issue, which affects all races.

Maybe white privilege is a polarising term which will undoubtedly get some people riled. On the other hand, it will make some people reflect and ask questions.

By the way, I've done my share of bumping bricks as well.

 

[Bold Seagull]

When I first heard the phrase it grated. Like you, I thought it was a load of bollocks and not helpful in the grand scheme of things. I thought to myself, what about the poor white working class kids growing up in poverty around the country? How can you say they're privileged? I held that mindset for quite a while to be honest. Then I learnt a bit about what it actually meant and decided it was in fact quite reasonable. The entrenched clas system and inequality in the UK is still a major issue - but it's a separate issue, which affects all races.

Maybe white privilege is a polarising term which will undoubtedly get some people riled. On the other hand, it will make some people reflect and ask questions.

By the way, I've done my share of bumping bricks as well.

How many brick layers could you keep in bricks and mortar for a day? Let’s put credentials on the line here, I’m talking brickies having all their profiles fixed and lines ready to go.

 

[Bakero]

How many brick layers could you keep in bricks and mortar for a day? Let’s put credentials on the line here, I’m talking brickies having all their profiles fixed and lines ready to go.

I only worked on smallish jobs, extensions etc, so I think it was 2 at most but I'd also be running up and down the ladder with the hod. My hole digging skills are also top notch.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I only worked on smallish jobs, extensions etc, so I think it was 2 at most but I'd also be running up and down the ladder with the hod. My hole digging skills are also top notch.

Not allowed to do that anymore, and yet at 16 my Dad had me up and down a ladder taking up bricks and mortar. I could keep 2 going, just, as long as they had plenty of tea breaks!! I was fit as a butchers dog in that period.

 

[A1X]

went to a private school and university like Diane Abbot’s kid, then we know there is no “privilege” derived from simply the colour of skin.

Ironically you've highlighted an example of white privilege yourself. Hundreds of MPs send their kids to private school, yet we only ever hear about Diane Abbott doing it. It isn't even political as we never hear about Jeremy Corbyn or John McDonnell doing it (though I believe both have). So why have people made a big thing out of Diane Abbott doing something loads of white people do and nobody bats an eye-lid?

 

[cunning fergus]

When I first heard the phrase it grated. Like you, I thought it was a load of bollocks and not helpful in the grand scheme of things. I thought to myself, what about the poor white working class kids growing up in poverty around the country? How can you say they're privileged? I held that mindset for quite a while to be honest. Then I learnt a bit about what it actually meant and decided it was in fact quite reasonable. The entrenched clas system and inequality in the UK is still a major issue - but it's a separate issue, which affects all races.

Maybe white privilege is a polarising term which will undoubtedly get some people riled. On the other hand, it will make some people reflect and ask questions.

By the way, I've done my share of bumping bricks as well.

Maybe you heard it before me, this phrase feels new and has been propagated as part of the BLM movement in y to be US and now the UK. As a message it is profoundly offensive, for some of the reasons you refer.

The truth of the matter is this country has taken great strides in recent years to resolve its very real racial relationship issues, however for those that think pushing this message would help resolve them in 2020, I would ask you this question.

If this message is part of the answer to the difficulties black communities have in this country, how do you think it would have gone down 20 years ago or in 80s or 70s?

We know the answer, and that is the proof of the progress, people pushing White Privilege messages today are now different from those in days gone by pimping England for the English.

 

[cunning fergus]

Ironically you've highlighted an example of white privilege yourself. Hundreds of MPs send their kids to private school, yet we only ever hear about Diane Abbott doing it. It isn't even political as we never hear about Jeremy Corbyn or John McDonnell doing it (though I believe both have). So why have people made a big thing out of Diane Abbott doing something loads of white people do and nobody bats an eye-lid?

I will accept that point, I didn’t know about Corbyn or McDonnell but was aware of Lady Nugee and Chakrabati sending their children to Private Schools.

But then my point was more about the hypocrisy of some of the most privileged in this country calling out the inequalities of the system of a country they live in.

It’s like the French Aristocracy agreeing that storming the bastille and introducing a policy to have their heads lopped off by the National razor were good ideas. If they really agreed with it they could have just given their money away........given up their privilege.

 

[Bakero]

Maybe you heard it before me, this phrase feels new and has been propagated as part of the BLM movement in y to be US and now the UK. As a message it is profoundly offensive, for some of the reasons you refer.

The truth of the matter is this country has taken great strides in recent years to resolve its very real racial relationship issues, however for those that think pushing this message would help resolve them in 2020, I would ask you this question.

If this message is part of the answer to the difficulties black communities have in this country, how do you think it would have gone down 20 years ago or in 80s or 70s?

We know the answer, and that is the proof of the progress, people pushing White Privilege messages today are now different from those in days gone by pimping England for the English.

The phrase itself isn't particularly new but was previously confined to academic circles. In recent years it's been thrown into the spotlight by groups such as BLM, which in turn has led to defensiveness, mainly, because many people don't understand the concept imo. I'd heard it many times but it was only when I took the time to look into it that I had some understanding. Until then I admit it put me on the defensive.

I fully agree that great strides have been made in recent years, aided by campaign groups as well as anti-discrimination laws. In your view would all forms of racism disappear organically given time?

In answer to your question, 20 years ago I don't think there would've been much difference. In the 70s and 80s I reckon white defensiveness would have been more extreme, which is an indicator of the progress we've made I suppose.

 

[Hastings gull]

Ironically you've highlighted an example of white privilege yourself. Hundreds of MPs send their kids to private school, yet we only ever hear about Diane Abbott doing it. It isn't even political as we never hear about Jeremy Corbyn or John McDonnell doing it (though I believe both have). So why have people made a big thing out of Diane Abbott doing something loads of white people do and nobody bats an eye-lid?

I recall her standing up at a labour Party Conference extolling the idea of comprehensive education for the many, whilst preferring the educational ambitions of the few for her little darling, which might just explain why she is targeted. That has nothing to do with racism, of course, which is what you are trying to insinuate. I don't actually think that she is the only one castigated for hypocrisy - for example was there not a thread on here a few months ago about a Momentum character in the Lewes area who chose Roedean for his little sweetie?

 

[symyjym]

Black Lives Matters (Explained For Dummies)

https://youtu.be/iB9GiQ_oAZA

 

[McTavish]

I think I suggested the rates of violent murder were higher in black communities compared to white equivalents, not specifically Manchester. As we know simply from the press there is a significant issue for violence in black communities in London which clearly outstrips white communities there.

https://news.sky.com/story/black-murder-victims-and-suspects-london-v-uk-11443656

That link specifically says that, outside London, there is little difference between the murder rates of black and white people so your suggestion was incorrect.

If that is the takeaway point you are making with the statistics then there is no material difference concerning violence and murder in the lived lives of all poor communities in the UK; be they poor white communities in Middlesbrough and Essex or poor black communities in Brixton and Moss side. Then the good news is we can close down BLM’s arguments about some of the limitations in poor black communities as they are the same as poor white communities.

No, the point I was making was that you are making generalisations about communities based on their ethnicity with no evidence - the word for this sort of behaviour is prejudice.