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[Albion] Where is Moises going? (Chelsea - 14/08/2023)

Where is Moises going?


  • Total voters
    664


Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
True but Moises to alzate is a huge huge downgrade. Alzate has shown that he is championship standard at best so far.
How many recent players have we had who people have said that about and it turns out to be wide of the mark ? Gilmour being a prime example. RDZ knows what he wants and what can be achieved with a player. Fans only see what he has done in the past and have no knowledge of how a player can be deployed.
 






Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
I wonder what has prevented them from paying the full asking price (apart from them probably not knowing what it is, and it costing them millions more)?
They obviously hold Caicedo in extremely high regard and think he is the one, but seem reluctant to cough up the extra required to secure him.

I'm guessing that the fact that Boehly's stake in the club is up for sale, could be a factor.
I read that Boehly is only a minority shareholder and stepped away from footballing responsibilities several months ago (March?). Clearlake pull the strings and simply appointed Boehly as Chairman Any sale of his stake has no effect on the running of the club or its strategy.
 


South Stand Bonfire

Who lit that match then?
NSC Patron
Jan 24, 2009
2,536
Shoreham-a-la-mer
Well it doesn't remove depth, if Mac + Caicedo out are replaced by Dahoud + Kudus in, with Alzate returning too. We all like to replace Caicedo with someone as good, but that's probably not possible, so i expect will do things a little differently. Anyway we played plenty of games without Caicedo in CM, had some great performances with Gross in there alongside Mac or Gilmour
Moder hopefully back this season too. Yet another International option in midfield.
 








brighton_tom

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2008
5,519
Alzate has shown that he is championship standard at best so far.
Each to their own but completely disagree. Not saying he would have been a starting player last season given how good Alexis and Moises were in centre mid, but Alzate has previously looked decent at Prem level. I'd suggest there are some key performances of his you are either not remembering or possibly didnt see.
 








Mike Small

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2008
2,979
Not good that's he's not in the squad at all but doesn't means he's definitely off (agree more likely). Trust the club to manage the situation in the best way as they did in January and previosly with Stephens etc.

Chelsea need to pay or be ignored and if City are interested then it would only be with Phillips coming the other way. Lots to weigh up and give him some time away from the limelight helps the other players. Also means if he does stay it's harmonious for the other players. Love TB. Hate Chelski.
 


S'hampton Seagull

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2003
6,946
Southampton
To me this means he's going. Just hope the replacement is lined up and ready to come in immediately.
 








Billy the Fish

Technocrat
Oct 18, 2005
17,594
Haywards Heath
Nobody else in the squad comes close to Caicedo as a DM. Every single one of our midfielders is a huge downgrade in that role of breaking up play and winning the ball back in the middle.

In fairness nobody outside of the top 4 had a player as good either so we have to be realistic. De Zerbi has been getting the best out of players so far but he's not a miracle worker, he won't suddenly turn anyone into the player that Caicedo is.
 










The Fits

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
10,106
Agreed to disagree there. Watched him a lot of both Ajax and Ghana and would be wasted deep
The only midfielder we keep 'deep' is Caicedo and I think that's because RDZ doesn't like what he does with the ball in the final third. Seems unlikely given what a great player Moises is. But I think if you look at how RDZ used Gilmour or Gross in CM it was much more about their ability to be involved higher up the field. Obviously we have a deep two man pivot in midfield but there is a difference between starting deep and being deep. Our defenders and GK start deep but are encouraged to get up to the halfway line. Will Kudus be a player told to just hang back, sweep up, cover defence etc, no. But, he is a player, like Dahoud and the rest, who can do a bit of both. Will contribute his share of tackles and pressing work in defence, but sill contribute a lot more in the final third. He's never had a player like Moises in his teams. If you look at Sassuoulo, Lopez and Fratessi, even Locatelli are players whose defensive work is far less destructive. Just like Dahoud, Mac and Gross, its more about positional play, pressing, footballing intelligence rather have astounding defensive attributes. Their vision and passing ability. Locatelli is definitely more of a DLP than a DM, or was at Sassuoulo.
Watching the pre season games in particular it feels like there's been an evolution of RDZ ball, or a further realisation of it which is essentially 'we do not give a shit about the opposition. We are going to keep the ball and attack with such force and numbers that the opposition are just blown away'.
Now look, Moises is great on the ball for a DM, he gets his head up, and will often play a far more ambitious pass than his type of player usually does. There's a risk of being accused of undervaluing Moises here which I'm not trying to do. I genuinely think he has the potential to be a generational talent and I also think he has the ability to become a genuinely elite box to box midfielder, and it's impossible to claim any manager wouldn't want a young player with such incredible defensive and physical attributes, but I suspect RDZ would swap that for a player who can add even the smallest percintile to our attacking stats. Just like he is prepared for Steele to give the ball away once or twice in return for his assist against Wolves I think he's also prepared to swap tackles made for goals and assists.

Anyway, this is a really exciting test for RDZ. I think we all agree he is a top tier manager, likely to be regarded as one of the very best in the next few years. We've backed him it seems by getting in JP and Kudus, and probably Igor. No other manager has felt so backed under Bloom.
He's chosen to spend nearly 80 milion on a forward and an AM likely knowing Moises would always leave. Pretty sure Kudus was always the 'replacement'. So let's see what he and we have got.

I also wish Moises all the best. He's an incredible talent and it's such a shame he's (likely) gone to Chelsea but let's be honest they're nailed on for top four at least with him in their team.
But if, by some miracle, he is just having the weekend off, then I genuinely think we are on the cusp of a truly incredible season.
 
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