[Albion] Where is Moises going? (Chelsea - 14/08/2023)

[Billy the Fish]

Interesting analysis @The Fits, it's an angle I hadn't really considered.

 

[The Fits]

The Man City thing has come from one random City supporter who likely got that 'rumour' from Albion twitter users guessing that the unnamed club could be City.

 

[Bingo]

Tight hamstring. That’s it!

 

[The Fits]

Just means that someone has finally matched the price tag.

The club will ( on balance, and looking at the bigger picture ) be quite happy.

The narrative on social media will always be we are a selling club, we are losing our best player. But the reality is we will always sell our players if the price is right. Nobody is pulling our pants down here.

 

[oldboyroy]

He's gone I imagine with not being selected today

 

[Jim in the West]

The only midfielder we keep 'deep' is Caicedo and I think that's because RDZ doesn't like what he does with the ball in the final third. Seems unlikely given what a great player Moises is. But I think if you look at how RDZ used Gilmour or Gross in CM it was much more about their ability to be involved higher up the field. Obviously we have a deep two man pivot in midfield but there is a difference between starting deep and being deep. Our defenders and GK start deep but are encouraged to get up to the halfway line. Will Kudus be a player told to just hang back, sweep up, cover defence etc, no. But, he is a player, like Dahoud and the rest, who can do a bit of both. Will contribute his share of tackles and pressing work in defence, but sill contribute a lot more in the final third. He's never had a player like Moises in his teams. If you look at Sassuoulo, Lopez and Fratessi, even Locatelli are players whose defensive work is far less destructive. Just like Dahoud, Mac and Gross, its more about positional play, pressing, footballing intelligence rather have astounding defensive attributes. Their vision and passing ability. Locatelli is definitely more of a DLP than a DM, or was at Sassuoulo.
Watching the pre season games in particular it feels like there's been an evolution of RDZ ball, or a further realisation of it which is essentially 'we do not give a shit about the opposition. We are going to keep the ball and attack with such force and numbers that the opposition are just blown away'.
Now look, Moises is great on the ball for a DM, he gets his head up, and will often play a far more ambitious pass than his type of player usually does. There's a risk of being accused of undervaluing Moises here which I'm not trying to do. I genuinely think he has the potential to be a generational talent and I also think he has the ability to become a genuinely elite box to box midfielder, and it's impossible to claim any manager wouldn't want a young player with such incredible defensive and physical attributes, but I suspect RDZ would swap that for a player who can add even the smallest percintile to our attacking stats. Just like he is prepared for Steele to give the ball away once or twice in return for his assist against Wolves I think he's also prepared to swap tackles made for goals and assists.

Anyway, this is a really exciting test for RDZ. I think we all agree he is a top tier manager, likely to be regarded as one of the very best in the next few years. We've backed him it seems by getting in JP and Kudus, and probably Igor. No other manager has felt so backed under Bloom.
He's chosen to spend nearly 80 milion on a forward and an AM likely knowing Moises would always leave. Pretty sure Kudus was always the 'replacement'. So let's see what he and we have got.

I also wish Moises all the best. He's an incredible talent and it's such a shame he's (likely) gone to Chelsea but let's be honest they're nailed on for top four at least with him in their team.
But if, by some miracle, he is just having the weekend off, then I genuinely think we are on the cusp of a truly incredible season.

Really interesting stuff. I had to do a quick google search on Moises' pass completion rate (which is VERY good)...but I agree that sometimes he seems to get into really good positions and fluffs the pass, or occasionally gives the ball away in a very dangerous position. No one is perfect. But the three things I think we would miss most (if he goes) are:

- His amazing speed of thought - so often he plays a one-touch pass perfectly. He has incredible vision.
- His strength - SO difficult to shrug off the ball
- His tackling - sometimes it is phenomenal how he manages to get a foot in, and disposess the opposition.

There aren't many like him.

 

[Affy]

Any links to him not being selected. I can’t see anything yet anywhere?

 

[dwayne]

As @dwayne has pointed out, talk of Philips is unrealistic. If Caicedo goes it will be because the signing club will pay wages that we won't. Phillips is already on wages that we wouldn't pay.

There is a slim chance of a loan

 

[The Fits]

Really interesting stuff. I had to do a quick google search on Moises' pass completion rate (which is VERY good)...but I agree that sometimes he seems to get into really good positions and fluffs the pass, or occasionally gives the ball away in a very dangerous position. No one is perfect. But the three things I think we would miss most (if he goes) are:

- His amazing speed of thought - so often he plays a one-touch pass perfectly. He has incredible vision.
- His strength - SO difficult to shrug off the ball
- His tackling - sometimes it is phenomenal how he manages to get a foot in, and disposess the opposition.

There aren't many like him.

He's a great passer. And he is fantastic at doing the thing RDZ loves his midfielders in particular to do. That is take the ball in an open stance, but still protecting it, and then turning at speed to attack through the midfield. As I said you cannot undervalue both his ability and his influence. But you look Dahoud and Kudus In particular and you see two players who have this kind of ability on the ball too. Clearly if Kudus does play in the middle, and we start seeing him in our own penalty box, it's going to be very nerve wracking to start, but RDZs attitude is if you can hold the ball, wriggle out of challenges etc in the attacking third you can do it in your own box.
Of course all of this might be me having a Sunday off and too much time on my hands. Kudus might only play as a winger/false 9 and if we do sell Moises we might go out and buy a destroyer. We will see. It's incredible supporting this club now though because every new challenge is just filled with excitement.

 

[Bingo]

Any links to him not being selected. I can’t see anything yet anywhere?

Barber confirmed on SSN that he has a tight hamstring. He said he fully expects him to be with us for the season.

 

[pocketseagull]

The hamstring excuse is bothersome because it's such an obvious lie, why do clubs do this?

 

[Munchkin]

Good luck Moises. Gutted but to be expected I guess, ultimately he wanted a move and we’ve struck the best deal we could for him.

Let’s hope RDZ and the club have a suitable replacement in mind.

 

[The Fits]

The hamstring excuse is bothersome because it's such an obvious lie, why do clubs do this?

Yeah they need to think of a different injury. Tight hammy always equals leaving, unhappy, pissed someone off in training etc.

 

[Affy]

Barber confirmed on SSN that he has a tight hamstring. He said he fully expects him to be with us for the season.

Thanks. Had missed that.

 

[brighton_tom]

Barber confirmed on SSN that he has a tight hamstring. He said he fully expects him to be with us for the season.

Dont suppose there's a video of this? If it is a lie then why include the 2nd part about being with us next season, automatic way of making himself look foolish.

 

[Roadrunner]

Dont suppose there's a video of this?

So we can see his nose visibly growing as he utters the 'tight hamstring' bs?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Thanks. Had missed that.

Tight Hammy is always a few weeks off. Certainly a medical failure.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

He's gone I imagine with not being selected today

I don’t understand this line of thinking. He was given a complete rest in January when we were here last. That was during the PL season. He may or may not be leaving (depends whether Chelsea pay up) but his appearance in a meaningless friendly is irrelevant.

 

[The Fits]

Caicedo was second to Rice for interceptions and second to Palhinha for tackles across all positions last year. So we are going to be well down on our defensive impact without him. Expect lots of 5-3s!

 

[Affy]

I don’t understand this line of thinking. He was given a complete rest in January when we were here last. That was during the PL season. He may or may not be leaving (depends whether Chelsea pay up) but his appearance in a meaningless friendly is irrelevant.

For me the thinking is, if he had played, then the chances of him going imminently are reduced in case he picks up an injury with a huge transfer on the horizon. There has been a lot of reporting of transfer targets missing friendlies before moves announced over the summer.
Whilst I agree, it doesn’t mean he is off, him playing today would have meant it more unlikely imo.