What's the problem? Players, coaches or just a losing mentality?

[GT49er]

Clearly there IS a problem - the difficult bit is defining what it is, and doing something about it; that's ultimately what Poyet will stand or fall on. It is worrying the way we get apparantly good players in, and then after a game or two they're making the same errors as everybody else - think Hoyte; when he first arrived, we were all purring that we had a really good right back, hope we make him permanent in January, now the general concensus seems to be, "Send him back to Arsenal ASAP". The same applied to practically all the loanees we got in last season.
I don't know what the problem is - but then again I'm not paid Gus's salary to work it out!
I do think the summer clear-out took some of the "Brighton-ness" out of the team - clearly, nobody's ever going to do a Celtic again (win the European Cup with a team of players born and bred within fifteen miles of the home ground), and we're always going to need to bring in players to supplement the local ones, and the ones that come up through the youth system (and our youth teams still appear to do pretty well) - but I'm not sure we've got that balance right at the moment. That's just my opinion, mind, and'I don't think it's the key to everything that's going wrong - but something, somewher, IS wrong. Let's hope Gus can sort it!

 

[Twinkle Toes]

There's not enough leaders in the dressing room or pride in the shirt.

It appears your observations could be all too true there, Mr H. Maybe they could get Gok Wan in to sort out the men from the boys?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It appears your observations could be all too true there, Mr H. Maybe they could get Gok Wan in to sort out the men from the boys?

We'll have none of THAT jiggery-pokery Ms. Toes!

 

[Lord Bamber]

Read the question again you fucktard. He questioned what the problem was and mentioned that it may be the coaches, along with the players or just a poor mentality. Your constant retardedness and putting- down of other people never ceases to amaze me.....

Call me juvenile

......fucktard.......

 

[Twinkle Toes]

We'll have none of THAT jiggery-pokery Ms. Toes!

Eh? I was thinking along the lines of confidence building techniques there Mr H: none of that CROWBAR type trickery (of which some n'er do well's may allude to)..

 

[Rookie]

Personally I think it is the midfield. Crofts, Dicker are average to good players in this league but don't seem to be able to get the ball and dictate play, throw in the fact that we are very lop sided without a left sided midfielder and it leads to problems. If you look at the goals we conceded most come from people just running through our midfield with or without the ball or from crosses from the left where the oppo have got a 2 on 1 on whoever the left back will be.
Poyet noticed this quite quickly which is why Navarro is in there to break up play and it has to worked to an extent in the middle but created even more problems on the left.

 

[Deano's Invisible Pants]

The problem we've got at the moment with the squad is that it's just ok.

The main issue we've got at the moment is that whilst the players we do have are good for this league, they're not of the calibre we need to make an impact.

If you look at the top teams in the league this season, they all have one or two players who can totally dominate in their positions and we've not got that. In my opinion, Crofts & Dicker are really good players but they're both similar and neither of them are able to really influence and able to change a game . What we need is someone like leeds had with Delph who is just aso influential that other teams have to use two midfielders to mark them out of the game. It's the same for our central defenders....Again, I'm a fan of both Elphick & Tunnicliffe but what we need is a Simon Morgan/Guy Butters type character who's played at a very high standard and we've not got that.

I think we're 3 players away from being a class team, but those players have to be of very high quality.

Spot on - I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

What struck me the other day is that for months fans have disagreed about the root cause of our piss poor results. The reason there has been little consensus is that with the possible exception of Smith in goal and Elphick/Virgo, there are no really poor players or weak links - well not by historical Albion standards anyway. Yet as good as Forster and Murray are, neither bangs in 30 goals a year. As good as Crofts and Dicker are, neither is a Steve Sidwell who can change a game. As promising as Tunnicliffe is, he is not a stand out, experienced, dominant centre half who opposition strikers hate to play against.

Question is, what can we do about it? Players like Zamora, Carpenter and Cullip are not easy to find. Let's hope that Poyet can use his contacts to get an experienced centre half in, and that TB opens his cheque book if need be.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Let's hope that Poyet can use his contacts to get an experienced centre half in, and that TB opens his cheque book if need be.

I'm afraid Mr Bloom is gonna have to ditch his "I don't like doing business in January" attitude if we are to get away from the second desperate relegation struggle in succession. I realise that additions will provide no real guarantee of improved results, but the defensive frailties just HAVE to be sorted if we're to prevent this season turning into a total disaster. I wonder how long it'll be before the 'Poyet Out' bandwaggon starts to gain momentum? Let's face it: a change of manager is bound to freshen things up. We're a top of the table squad, don't forget..

 

[Dr Bandler]

At Last

Personally I think it is the midfield. Crofts, Dicker are average to good players in this league but don't seem to be able to get the ball and dictate play, throw in the fact that we are very lop sided without a left sided midfielder and it leads to problems. If you look at the goals we conceded most come from people just running through our midfield with or without the ball or from crosses from the left where the oppo have got a 2 on 1 on whoever the left back will be.
Poyet noticed this quite quickly which is why Navarro is in there to break up play and it has to worked to an extent in the middle but created even more problems on the left.

At last, someone who sees it the way I do. While Crofts and Dicker may show pleasing touches at times they cannot dominate games as a midfield pair. Either could be OK alongside a dominant player.

Also, Norman Gall said earlier in the season that while the defence appears to be bad, some of it is down to the midfield covering and organisation; and that the defenders are being exposed. While this is not a view that has been put forward much on here, remember that Gall was a pro footballer, and that his view is worth listening to.

 

[GT49er]

Also, Norman Gall said earlier in the season that while the defence appears to be bad, some of it is down to the midfield covering and organisation; and that the defenders are being exposed.

This is very true. If a defence is under pressure for 75 minutes of every match, they are bound to conceded a few. While not comparing our defence to great defences elsewhere - Lawrenson and Hanson, Bruce and McAllister, the Arsenal back four, for example - those great defences didn't spend most of the match with the ball and the opposition coming straight back at them every time they cleared the ball. If you only have serious defending to do for fifteen or twenty minutes of the match, it's much easier to keep a clean sheet.....................

 

[murraymints4brighton]

As much as I like Poyet we never should have sacked Slade and I stated that the day he left. Were we ever going to go down under Slade? No.

Now we have appointed a manager who is a great guy, was a great player and good assistant but nobody can lay claim that he is a good manager and with his inexperience is there a chance we will go down? Yes.

Slade should have stayed, we should have settled for mid table mediocrity, brought players in in the transfer windows and pushed on towards the championship next season with a good strong backbone and a manger who had actually been here for more than two seasons.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

As much as I like Poyet we never should have sacked Slade and I stated that the day he left. Were we ever going to go down under Slade? No.

Now we have appointed a manager who is a great guy, was a great player and good assistant but nobody can lay claim that he is a good manager and with is inexperience is there a chance we will go down? Yes.

The current under-performing set of players cost Slade his job.

The same set of players, if allowed to coast for the rest of this season, will cost Poyet his job also.

Nothing surer.

The current set of players are the problem.

There's the nucleus of a promising set of players in there.

About four of 'em.

 

[murraymints4brighton]

The current under-performing set of players cost Slade his job.

The same set of players, if allowed to coast for the rest of this season, will cost Poyet his job also.

Nothing surer.

The current set of players are the problem.

There's the nucleus of a promising set of players in there.

About four of 'em.

The players are indeed the problem and not the manager so why did we bother getting rid of Slade in the first place? He brought in players like Hoyte, Crofts, Dicker, Bennett and Dickinson who all to a degree are good players and have potential. He had an eye for a good player and GIVEN TIME!!! would have turned it around (although to me there was nothing to turn around as we were in October and were a working progress).

Slade would have continued to strengthen and we would have been in a much healthier position in January than we are now going to be. I feel it was a poor decision for him to leave, but no way near as poor as the Wilkins decision.

 

[Acker79]

I'm afraid Mr Bloom is gonna have to ditch his "I don't like doing business in January" attitude if we are to get away from the second desperate relegation struggle in succession.

I suspect there is a degree of gamesmanship about this declaration of his.

If you make it clear you don't like doing business in january, people have to pay more for your players, and won't take as much advantage of you. It also can help make a player feel special ("We don't normally do deals in january, but you are so good, we felt we had to make an exception")

 

[k2bluesky]

There are serious problems for sure, the main glaring one which is evident every time I see us play, is we are not really a 'team' and most of the individual players are not 'natural' winners, the body language and movement of most are inferior to the opposition who nearly always look stronger, run with more purpose and 'look' like they want to win - our players are either not strong enough mentally or physically or both, they may have come from good 'teams' which made them look good but on their own, in a new environment they are very average.
The solution will take time (which we are fast running out of) , to mould a team (if possible) or wasting more money to find natural 'winners' who will thrive in any team.
That's the trouble with team sports, each individual doesn't have to be responsible for the result or winning their 'prize' money, safe in the knowledge their salary is paid win or lose.

 

[Brovion]

Some good points on this thread made by the likes of supaseagull, xenophon and GT49er. There's a lot of people beating themselves up and trying to over-analyse the situation by saying stuff like "I just don't understand it, the squad's better than it was last season so why are we struggling?" The answer's very simple: the squad ISN'T better than it was last season - merely different. Start from that premise and everything makes a lot more sense. Oh for sure a couple of the new guys are better than what we had last year (Bennet for example) but then in some areas (goalkeeper) we've definitely gone backwards. Overall we're pretty much the same, and I'm sure even the most blinkered fan who still believes, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that this squad IS better than last season has to admit that in terms of talent we haven't taken a great leap forwards.

People are now pinning their faith on our dealings in the Janurary window. Hmmm. I'm not sure how much of that is the triumph of hope over experience.