[Politics] What’s the best way to heal the North/South divide?

[Blue3]

I think the Tories under Boris and with a huge majority if they really finally do somthing for the North of Britan could keep Labour out of power for the next ten years

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

That's exactly it, people I know who voted for Brexit wanted it because they thought it was better in the 'old days', but now that Labour won't support it they turn on Labour, because it doesn't feel like the party of the people if it is going against the will of the people. As stupid as it may be to vote against a party that will benefit poorer people, they feel betrayed by that same party and Boris is spouting what they want to hear. These people are desperate, our high streets are dying and jobs are hard to find, you don't have to go far to find the poverty round here, and when it seems like your party is betraying you, without bringing solid facts or arguments to the table, why would you carry on trusting them, these people might have screwed themselves, but Labour have also done the same thing.

You don’t have to go far to find poverty around anywhere. The North (and I lived in Birkenhead for all of my school years) was left for dead when industry packed up and left in the 1970s and consigned the workers to decades of decline, neglect and governmental indifference.

The issue is that socialism (whether Derek Hatton in Liverpool or Corbyn in Islington) has not solved the issue for them. Poor people don’t want Albanians and Poles undercutting them and out working them so will want to leave a bloc that means no work for the kids and no hospital beds for their families. Labour didn’t get that. Boris did.

 

[Poojah]

‘The North’ is a very broad term and probably not the most useful descriptor in this respect. I’ve lived in Leeds for nearly 15 years now and I love it; it’s a cracking, prosperous city with bags of opportunity and career potential. In my specific line of work, I could probably move to London and increase my salary by up to 50%, but then an equivalent quality of life would probably cost another 200%.

Just down the road is Harrogate, one of the wealthiest towns in the country. My wife hails from Northallerton in North Yorkshire, which I believe is the wealthiest market town in the country. It’s a little quaint for me, but it’s a lovely town and a nice if slightly sedate place to bring up a family.

That said, I was born and raised in Grimsby, and I also lived in Middlesbrough for three years. Those towns undoubtedly have problems, but it’s not Boris Johnson or Johnny Foreigner that’s at the heart of it. Quite simply, the industries that created them no longer exist, at least in any meaningful way. There are no jobs, and therefore no money. Grimsby’s largest employer, Young’s, recently moved all senior management positions to London because of the difficulty of attracting talent to the area.

Because there are no jobs, any attempts to regenerate and revitalise fail. Even Wetherspoons failed in Grimsby, which I think is a pretty good barometer of just how acidic the commercial soil is in the area.

I don’t think there’s a quick fix, but if the the problem is primarily obsolete industries, then surely part of the solution needs to be making a concerted effort to place emerging ones in and around the most deprived areas (whether that be in the North or anywhere else for that matter). Green technology IS the future, why not subsidise the creation of labs and factories where land is cheap, labour is cheap but jobs are sparse.

The likes of Grimsby will always find it hard because logistically it’s a pain to access and quite literally the end of the line. However, it has been subject to major investment from renewable energy companies and its beginning to make a difference.

I’ve always been a Tory, however I don’t like Boris Johnson and I don’t like Brexit. That said, I absolutely accept it. All I hope for now is that we see a more forward thinking and entrepreneurial government. The solutions are out there, if we really care.

 

[lawros left foot]

'The change' in question being the leaving of the EU. After all, the town died, the shops closed and the firms went bust - all since we joined the EU in the first place. You may not agree with the logic, but logic it undeniably is.

It’s not logical.
It’s 10 years of Tory austerity, it’s got **** all to do with the EU, those people have been conned. We are the 5th richest country in the World, because of the EU not in spite of it.

The EU has provided 87.7 million pounds in structural funds for that area since 2014.

 

[LowKarate]

Food unites everyone.

 

[Jim D]

Really! How many times do ministers flit in and out of their offices and into parliament. If one bit goes then it all has to go. That is why the idea is ludicrous. The cost would be horrendous at a time when our economy is about to take a downturn due to Brexit.

Have to agree with the comments of Horses Arse. You reap what you sow. Do those in the North really believe they are better off under the party that has governed them for the last 9 years?

Ever since 2017 the leave-voting electorate have had to put up with remainers theorising that they didn't understand the implications and that, given another chance, they would repent and vote to remain. They had to bite their tongues while they saw their own MPs defying their wishes and stopping Brexit. When another GE was called they then saw their own party of allegiance steadfastly refusing to support Brexit, but instead offering them a trillion pounds worth of pie-in-the-sky as a bribe - and worse, one which hardly anybody thought could be delivered. Was it really a big shock when these same people decided that, as they couldn't rely on Labour to do what they voted for, they would switch to those that would? And as for the economic argument, somebody once said 'When you ain't got nothing, you've got nothing to lose'.
And now, we have the metropolitan elite in their nice North London houses and with North London salaries calling then stupid - with no attempt to understand? To me, this just about sums up the disgrace of the Labour party under Corbyn and his cronies. They are totally unfit to be MPs, let alone be in power. They need to be cleared out en-masse and replaced with a new team that will connect with these northern voters and get them back onside. Unfortunately for Labour it looks like Boris has got there first and, bearing in mind he was twice elected London Mayor in the face of an overwhelming Labour-supporting electorate, I wouldn't put it past him to succeed.

 

[Grassman]

I like principled people so I like Corbyn.
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So someone who was a fascist with fascist ideals who never changed their mind and went to their grave believing in Fascism, is someone you would like, yeah? You like Corbyn because of his views, not because he is principled. He may well be principled, but his principles are about as naive as an A level politics student.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If I were a lying serial womanising ex public schoolboy I’d deffo choose a Sunday in sedgefield over a grilling on Marr.

Mind you. There’s lasses in Halifax still thinking of when Brighton came to their yard and strumming themselves to sleep over it.

Whatever you think of Boris...he’s played a blinder there.

I’d prefer a nice warm tv studio to visiting some random northern shit-hole.

 

[Hastings gull]

I like principled people so I like Corbyn. A vote for Corbyn wouldn't be stupid but many think I'm stupid for wanting him in. It is also probably true to say that he was wrong to try and apply principles to politics, it made him unelectable.

He would have cost me a lot when he implemented the tax hikes; corporation tax and tax on dividends etc. But it is the right thing to do.

It would have hurt, but not really hurt. Not hurt like it does for many with no hope. It is those that need help and they won't be getting. It.

It upsets me a lot. Really depressing. Thatcher started the greed, selfishness and hate and it is here to stay unfortunately. It felt like this was the last chance for change and now it's gone.

This country is ****ed.

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Fascinating comment. Given that Corbyn told us that only the rich will pay for his spending bonanza, then you must be loaded, not that that bothers me in the slightest, by the way. Or is it the case that you are perhaps not so rich, but realise that despite Corbyn's promise that only the rich will pay, you have picked up, as did the electorate, that we will all pay for eye-watering freebies.

 

[Mr Bridger]

Yep. It is completely ludicrous.

Whilst I don't agree at all with the mentality, I can understand those with money voting for those that will help them keep more; even if that is at the expense of those less fortunate. The dog eat dog philosophy of old that I'd hoped we would leave behind. I can also understand hate-filled racist intolerant biggots and the old empire types voting for Johnson, the cap certainly fits.

But shat upon northern outposts voting on mass for their abuser in chief is mind numbingly stupid. What utter bellends

My heart bleeds for those that have sense but are in the minority as they will suffer alongside the stupid. Meanwhile I'll be financially better off but increasingly sad at the state of the population I live among. Very very depressing.

think you’ve been on twitter too much

 

[Razzoo]

Some really snobby sanctimonious lefties showing their faces on this thread. No wonder Labour lost so out of touch and elitist.Looking up to the likes of Thornberry and McDonnell as saviours.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I’m guessing this thread is the Labour Party manifesto 2024.
Might just work.

 

[Hastings gull]

Ever since 2017 the leave-voting electorate have had to put up with remainers theorising that they didn't understand the implications and that, given another chance, they would repent and vote to remain. They had to bite their tongues while they saw their own MPs defying their wishes and stopping Brexit. When another GE was called they then saw their own party of allegiance steadfastly refusing to support Brexit, but instead offering them a trillion pounds worth of pie-in-the-sky as a bribe - and worse, one which hardly anybody thought could be delivered. Was it really a big shock when these same people decided that, as they couldn't rely on Labour to do what they voted for, they would switch to those that would? And as for the economic argument, somebody once said 'When you ain't got nothing, you've got nothing to lose'.
And now, we have the metropolitan elite in their nice North London houses and with North London salaries calling then stupid - with no attempt to understand? To me, this just about sums up the disgrace of the Labour party under Corbyn and his cronies. They are totally unfit to be MPs, let alone be in power. They need to be cleared out en-masse and replaced with a new team that will connect with these northern voters and get them back onside. Unfortunately for Labour it looks like Boris has got there first and, bearing in mind he was twice elected London Mayor in the face of an overwhelming Labour-supporting electorate, I wouldn't put it past him to succeed.

Excellent post -hard to disagree with any of this -and I voted remain!

 

[Shooting Star]

Ever since 2017 the leave-voting electorate have had to put up with remainers theorising that they didn't understand the implications and that, given another chance, they would repent and vote to remain. They had to bite their tongues while they saw their own MPs defying their wishes and stopping Brexit. When another GE was called they then saw their own party of allegiance steadfastly refusing to support Brexit, but instead offering them a trillion pounds worth of pie-in-the-sky as a bribe - and worse, one which hardly anybody thought could be delivered. Was it really a big shock when these same people decided that, as they couldn't rely on Labour to do what they voted for, they would switch to those that would? And as for the economic argument, somebody once said 'When you ain't got nothing, you've got nothing to lose'.
And now, we have the metropolitan elite in their nice North London houses and with North London salaries calling then stupid - with no attempt to understand? To me, this just about sums up the disgrace of the Labour party under Corbyn and his cronies. They are totally unfit to be MPs, let alone be in power. They need to be cleared out en-masse and replaced with a new team that will connect with these northern voters and get them back onside. Unfortunately for Labour it looks like Boris has got there first and, bearing in mind he was twice elected London Mayor in the face of an overwhelming Labour-supporting electorate, I wouldn't put it past him to succeed.

Excellent post, amen!

 

[Hastings gull]

It’s not logical.
It’s 10 years of Tory austerity, it’s got **** all to do with the EU, those people have been conned. We are the 5th richest country in the World, because of the EU not in spite of it.

The EU has provided 87.7 million pounds in structural funds for that area since 2014.

That would be extremely difficult to prove, as you don't know what would have happened, had we not been in the EU, other than your guess. I won't quibble with your figures, if you say so, then that is fine, but had we not handed money to the EU, to then spend it back on us, might we have been able to afford that ourselves?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

‘The North’ is a very broad term and probably not the most useful descriptor in this respect. I’ve lived in Leeds for nearly 15 years now and I love it; it’s a cracking, prosperous city with bags of opportunity and career potential. In my specific line of work, I could probably move to London and increase my salary by up to 50%, but then an equivalent quality of life would probably cost another 200%.

Just down the road is Harrogate, one of the wealthiest towns in the country. My wife hails from Northallerton in North Yorkshire, which I believe is the wealthiest market town in the country. It’s a little quaint for me, but it’s a lovely town and a nice if slightly sedate place to bring up a family.

That said, I was born and raised in Grimsby, and I also lived in Middlesbrough for three years. Those towns undoubtedly have problems, but it’s not Boris Johnson or Johnny Foreigner that’s at the heart of it. Quite simply, the industries that created them no longer exist, at least in any meaningful way. There are no jobs, and therefore no money. Grimsby’s largest employer, Young’s, recently moved all senior management positions to London because of the difficulty of attracting talent to the area.

Because there are no jobs, any attempts to regenerate and revitalise fail. Even Wetherspoons failed in Grimsby, which I think is a pretty good barometer of just how acidic the commercial soil is in the area.

I don’t think there’s a quick fix, but if the the problem is primarily obsolete industries, then surely part of the solution needs to be making a concerted effort to place emerging ones in and around the most deprived areas (whether that be in the North or anywhere else for that matter). Green technology IS the future, why not subsidise the creation of labs and factories where land is cheap, labour is cheap but jobs are sparse.

The likes of Grimsby will always find it hard because logistically it’s a pain to access and quite literally the end of the line. However, it has been subject to major investment from renewable energy companies and its beginning to make a difference.

I’ve always been a Tory, however I don’t like Boris Johnson and I don’t like Brexit. That said, I absolutely accept it. All I hope for now is that we see a more forward thinking and entrepreneurial government. The solutions are out there, if we really care.

You’ve just illustrated the issue beautifully. I know the areas you mention. I understand the issues more than most having lived (and worked) in the most deprived community in England for many years.

There is a structural disconnect here with generations of kids taught by indifferent schools for jobs that don’t exist. No one in their right mind would move their offices to Tranmere or Oxton because there are no folk there with the skills needed to make it a success. Governments have tried...the Conservatives have put in enterprise hubs, tax breaks, free ports and Christ knows what. Do you know who took advantage? Drug dealers and smugglers (the reports are publicly available) Labour moved the entire civil service to Kirby and Middlesbrough...the problems of poverty and opportunity still persist.

Ultimately it will take some local entrepreneurs to change it. But don’t hold your breath.

 

[Hastings gull]

I’d prefer a nice warm tv studio to visiting some random northern shit-hole.

Compromise and find a nice warm studio in Burnley .

 

[Knocky's Nose]

So I assume this "plan" includes demolishing the current Houses of Parliament ?

Convert into apartments. Obviously!

 

[GT49er]

It’s not logical.
It’s 10 years of Tory austerity, it’s got **** all to do with the EU, those people have been conned. We are the 5th richest country in the World, because of the EU not in spite of it.

The EU has provided 87.7 million pounds in structural funds for that area since 2014.

Frankly it’s 10 years of Tory austerity that has got **** all (or very little to do with it. The rot had set in long before that - more like 40 years in fact. So, it is logic. It's just logic that you don't like.

 

[Recidivist]

Blimey this has turned into another Brexit thread, which wasn’t really my intention!

Sounds like a good percentage of people on the thread actually prefer a North/South divide as they’re all so thick oop there?

There’s plenty of evidence that suggests that dissatisfaction with their lot was a major influence in the Brexit referendum.

The fact that Brexit was never the solution doesn’t negate what ended up, at least partially, as a protest vote.

Unfortunately, this event coincided with possibly the worst Labour leader in living memory (I can go back as far as Harold Mcmillan to compare), so many across the country were faced with a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Far more people in the South voted for Boris than in the North. Does that make them thick too?


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