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Whats really happening in Lebanon



GNF on Tour

Registered Twunt
Jul 7, 2003
1,365
Auckland
I might get slammed for posting this here but I thought it a damn interesting read and not something you would find in the Uk or certainly US media.

It might stimulate some interesting discussion which I am totally not going to take part in. For my pennies worth I think its bang on.

ISRAEL'S real aim is to change the regime in Lebanon and to install a puppet government. That was the aim of Ariel Sharon's invasion of Lebanon in 1982. It failed. But Sharon and his pupils in the military and political leadership have never really given up on it.

As in 1982, the present operation, too, was planned and is being carried out in full co-ordination with the US.

As then, there is no doubt that it is co-ordinated with a part of the Lebanese elite.

That's the main thing. Everything else is noise and propaganda.

On the eve of the 1982 invasion, US Secretary of State Alexander Haig told Sharon that, before starting, it was necessary to have a "clear provocation" which would be accepted by the world.

The provocation took place - at exactly the appropriate time - when Abu Nidal's terror gang tried to assassinate the Israeli ambassador in London. This had no connection with Lebanon and even less with the PLO, the enemy of Abu Nidal, but it served its purpose.

This time, the necessary provocation has been provided by the capture of the two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah. Everyone knows that they cannot be freed except through an exchange of prisoners. But the huge military campaign that has been ready to go for months was sold to the Israeli and international public as a rescue operation.

Strangely enough, the very same thing happened two weeks earlier in the Gaza Strip. Hamas and its partners captured a soldier, which provided the excuse for a massive operation that had been prepared for a long time and whose aim is to destroy the Palestinian government.

The declared aim of the Lebanon operation is to push Hezbollah away from the border, so as to make it impossible for it to capture more soldiers and to launch rockets at Israeli towns. The invasion of the Gaza Strip is also officially aimed at getting the towns of Ashkelon and Sderot out of the range of the Qassam rockets.

That resembles the 1982 Operation Peace for Gallilee. Then, the public and the Knesset were told that the aim of the war was to "push the Katyushas 40km away from the border."

That was a deliberate lie. For 11 months before the war, not a single Katyusha rocket - nor a single shot - had been fired over the border. >From the beginning, the aim of the operation was to reach Beirut and install a quisling dictator. As I have recounted more than once, Sharon himself told me so nine months before the war and I duly published it at the time, with his consent but unattributed.

Of course, the present operation also has several secondary aims, which do not include the freeing of the prisoners. Everybody understands that that cannot be achieved by military means. But it is probably possible to destroy some of the thousands of missiles that Hezbollah has accumulated over the years.

To this end, the army chiefs are ready to endanger the inhabitants of the Israeli towns that are exposed to the rockets. They believe that that is worthwhile, like an exchange of chess figures.

Another secondary aim is to rehabilitate the "deterrent power" of the army. That is a codeword for the restoration of the army's injured pride that has suffered a severe blow from the daring military actions of Hamas in the south and Hezbollah in the north.

Officially, the Israeli government demands that the government of Lebanon disarm Hezbollah and remove it from the border region.

That is clearly impossible under the present Lebanese regime, a delicate fabric of ethno-religious communities. The slightest shock can bring the whole structure crashing down and throw the state into total anarchy - especially after the US succeeded in driving out the Syrian army, the only element that provided some stability.

The idea of installing a quisling in Lebanon is nothing new. In 1955, David Ben-Gurion proposed taking a "Christian officer" and installing him as dictator. Moshe Sharet showed that this idea was based on complete ignorance of Lebanese affairs and torpedoed it.

But, 27 years later, Sharon tried to put it into effect nevertheless. Bashir Gemayel was, indeed, installed as president, only to be murdered soon afterwards. His brother Amin succeeded him and signed a peace agreement with Israel, but was driven out of office. The same brother is now publicly supporting the Israeli operation.

The calculation now is that, if the Israeli air force rains heavy enough blows on the Lebanese population, paralysing ports and airports, destroying the infrastructure, bombarding residential neighbourhoods, cutting the Beirut-Damascus road etc, the public will get furious with Hezbollah and press the Lebanese government into fulfilling Israel's demands. Since the present government cannot even dream of doing so, a dictatorship will be set up with Israel's support.

That is the military logic. I have my doubts. It can be assumed that most Lebanese will react as any other people on Earth would - with fury and hatred towards the invader. That happened in 1982, when the Shi'ites in the south of Lebanon, until then as docile as a doormat, stood up against the Israeli occupiers and created Hezbollah, which has become the strongest force in the country. If the Lebanese elite now becomes tainted as collaborators with Israel, it will be swept off the map.

US policy is full of contradictions. President Bush wants "regime change" in the Middle East, but the present Lebanese regime was only recently set up under US pressure. In the meantime, Bush has succeeded only in breaking up Iraq and causing a civil war. He may get the same in Lebanon if he does not stop the Israeli army in time.

Moreover, a devastating blow against Hezbollah may arouse fury not only in Iran but also among the Shi'ites in Iraq, on whose support all of Bush's plans for a pro-US regime are built.

So, what's the answer? Not by accident, Hezbollah has carried out its soldier-snatching raid at a time when the Palestinians are crying out for succour. The Palestinian cause is popular all over the Arab word. By showing that they are a friend in need, when all other Arabs are failing dismally, Hezbollah hopes to increase its popularity. If an Israeli-Palestinian agreement had been achieved by now, Hezbollah would be no more than a local Lebanese phenomenon.

Less than three months after its formation, the Olmert-Peretz government has succeeded in plunging Israel into a two-front war, whose aims are unrealistic and whose results cannot be foreseen.

If Prime Minister Ehud Olmert hopes to be seen as Mr Macho-Macho, a Sharon No 2, he will be disappointed. The same goes for the desperate attempts of Defence Secretary Amir Peretz to be taken seriously as an imposing Mr Security. Everybody understands that this campaign - both in Gaza and in Lebanon - has been planned by the army and dictated by the army. The man who makes the decisions in Israel now is Chief of General Staff Dan Halutz. It is no accident that the job in Lebanon has been turned over to the air force, where he made his name.

The Israeli public is not enthusiastic about the war. It is resigned to it, in stoic fatalism, because it is being told that there is no alternative. Indeed, who can be against it? Who does not want to liberate the "kidnapped soldiers?" Who does not want to remove the Katyushas and rehabilitate deterrence?

No politician dares to criticise the operation except the Arab members of Parliament, who are ignored by the Jewish public. In the media, the generals reign supreme and not only those in uniform. There is almost no former general who is not being invited by the media to comment, explain and justify, all speaking in one voice.

As an illustration, Israel's most popular TV channel invited me to an interview about the war after hearing that I had taken part in an anti-war demonstration. I was quite surprised. But not for long. An hour before the broadcast, an apologetic talkshow host called and said that there had been a terrible mistake - they had meant to invite Professor Shlomo Avineri, a former director general of the Foreign Office who can be counted on to justify any act of the government, whatever it may be, in lofty academic language.

Inter arma silent musae - when the weapons speak, the muses fall silent. Or, rather, when the guns roar, the brain ceases to function.

And just a small thought. When the state of Israel was founded in the middle of a cruel war, a poster was plastered on the walls: "All the country - a front! All the people - an army!"

Fifty-eight years have passed and the same slogan is still as valid as it was then. What does that say about generations of Israeli statesmen and generals?

• Uri Avnery is an Israeli journalist, peace activist and former Knesset member. He is one of the founders of Gush Shalom, a broad-based Israeli peace group.
 




dougdeep

New member
May 9, 2004
37,732
SUNNY SEAFORD
I think people are dying. Murdering Israeli bastards.
 


looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
Can we have a tinfoil hat smilie please?

To long only read first 3 paragraphs and that was enough.

Summerise it stupid, my time is valuable.
 


GNF on Tour

Registered Twunt
Jul 7, 2003
1,365
Auckland
looney said:
Can we have a tinfoil hat smilie please?

To long only read first 3 paragraphs and that was enough.

Summerise it stupid, my time is valuable.

Do you want me to correct your spelling at the same time fucknut?
 


looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
Hell go for it dumbass, and I read the last 3 paragraphs to.

"All the country - a front! All the people - an army!"

Thats not true as the Hassidics dont fight.

Israeli peace activist? What the f***? Bit like a Carnivious Vegan.

I know if if I waste 5 minutes of my life reading that wacko anully inspired drivel I'll be tempted to take back the time of the end of your life, so I wont.

What knesset party was this PR produced poltroon a member of?
 




glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
obviously written by someone who likes to re-write history,Israel only retaliates if attacked.
thats it, simple is'nt it .
If someone punches you you will punch back.

I feel sorry for all the innocents,if hezballah must hide amoung civilians and not come out and fight what are the israelis supposed to do allow the bombing off their state with no reply.
 
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GNF on Tour

Registered Twunt
Jul 7, 2003
1,365
Auckland
Thats not true as the Hassidics dont fight.

How may Hassadic Jews would you find in the Israeli military?

I know by posting this I've given you the opportunity to put your Readers Wives Over 60's mags down for the evening, but come on, you can do better than that!

Anyway, its not particulary funny, I'm not trying to defend Hezzobollah, but the Israeli's get away with literally murder everyday and justify it through false means, maybe Blair, Bush (s)and Sharon went to the same University Chess Club.
 
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Dandyman

In London village.
looney said:


"All the country - a front! All the people - an army!"

What knesset party was this PR produced poltroon a member of?


Avnery was born in Germany in 1923 as Helmut Ostermann.

He served in the following Knesset periods:

Knesset 6 Ha-olam Hazeh - Koah Hadash
Knesset 7 Ha-olam Hazeh - Koah Hadash, Radical Camp of Israel
Knesset 9 Left Camp of Israel


He was also a member of the Samsons Foxes Commando unit in the 1948 war.

Possibly ironically he was also a one time member of the ultra-right wing Irgun terrorist group during the British Mandate.
 
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Dandyman

In London village.
looney said:
Ultra right?


Irgun were a terrorist off-shoot of the Revionist movement. You can use ultra-nationalist if you prefer.
 


Oh Christ, more excuses and distractions from the truth, which is that the Israelis are happy to lay blame on the other guy while they slam explosives into the innocent with the REAL puppets the USA nodding in careful approval.

Reality check; A molested child becomes a molester. A child brought up by a violent father becomes a violent father. Israel have been oppressed throughout history, so they become the oppressor.
Still a legacy of Hitler, that Israel are the victims, just doing what they have been FORCED to do.

Sorry, but fighting fire with fire is just resulting in a lot of fire, whatever the smokescreen these people hide behind. Yes the Hazbolah are no better, but I can only sympathise with the innocent victims, whose surviving members will only go on with hatred, and increase.

Shame the Bush family were so obsessed with bringing Clinton into disrepute while he was getting more success than anyone before in brokering a peace in the area. It all beggars belief.
 




glasfryn said:
obviously written by someone who likes to re-write history,Israel only retaliates if attacked.
thats it, simple is'nt it .
If someone punches you you will punch back.

I feel sorry for all the innocents,if hezballah must hide amoung civilians and not come out and fight what are the israelis supposed to do allow the bombing off their state with no reply.

You paint the picture that the Israelis were getting bombed, and had to respond. How exactly did you come to that conclusion?
There was a shell that murdered picnicing Palestinians on a beach during a peace accord. Then there was an Israeli soldier captured (did they come over to Israel through an armed checkpoint and steal him? How did they get an Israeli soldier for crying out loud? Or was he on their territory during a peace accord? Was he lost? Was he going to get a kebab in 'enemy territory'? Weird, eh?)
 


glasfryn said:
obviously written by someone who likes to re-write history,Israel only retaliates if attacked.

Why are they still occupying post-1967 war land in violation of so many UN resolutions (which don't seem to count to the Security Council as it is Israel) then?

I don't know if the latest invasion is an excuse by Israel for more regime change among its neighbours.

But with all the international focus on Iran and a very complicated Middle East conflict cartoonised in the US media as part of their dumb War on Terror, it's certainly a very convenient time for the Israeli military to go in and slaughter a few opponents while the going looks good for them.

Whether they get away with it is up to people of conscience throughout the world :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 


glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
NMH said:
You paint the picture that the Israelis were getting bombed, and had to respond. How exactly did you come to that conclusion?
There was a shell that murdered picnicing Palestinians on a beach during a peace accord. Then there was an Israeli soldier captured (did they come over to Israel through an armed checkpoint and steal him? How did they get an Israeli soldier for crying out loud? Or was he on their territory during a peace accord? Was he lost? Was he going to get a kebab in 'enemy territory'? Weird, eh?)

last I heard the supposed shell was actually a palestinian mine and the soldier was taken from a camp in Israel that had been tunnelled into by palestinians.
In fact the former fact was given after the original news release and the BBC had to opoligise.
I wish only that there was peace in the middle east can't be to much to ask.

people always said there would never be peace in northern Ireland but there is a semblence of peace there at the moment and I take heart from that.
 




Clapham Old Mug

New member
Aug 6, 2004
182
Clapham
Good God - for a site designed solely for the abuse of Leyton Orient supporters, this is all getting terribly topical. Last week, the US's treatment of Cuba; this week, Hezbollah... Well, last night I spent an hour at a party in Havana arguing with an Frenchman about what's going on in Lebanon - so count me in! Funny how Jordan and Egypt accept Israel's right to exist and so there's (more or less) no trouble between them. But Hammas, Hezbollah and Iran continue to demand Israel's total destruction which makes the Israelis very cross. If the "Arabs" hadn't tried - and failed - to destroy the place in 1967, they wouldn't have lost all that land.
I insist we are returned our rightful place in the Coca-Cola championship. It's jolly unfair we didn't get any points for the games we lost...
 


hitony

Administrator
Jul 13, 2005
16,284
South Wales (im not welsh !!)
Dunno to much about all the political crap thats going on, BUT my wife is an accounts manager for a travel agents, and theres some dirt cheap holidays going out that way at the moment :dunce:
 


glasfryn said:
last I heard the supposed shell was actually a palestinian mine and the soldier was taken from a camp in Israel that had been tunnelled into by palestinians.
In fact the former fact was given after the original news release and the BBC had to opoligise.
I wish only that there was peace in the middle east can't be to much to ask.

people always said there would never be peace in northern Ireland but there is a semblence of peace there at the moment and I take heart from that.

Yeah, I had heard that rumour of Palestinians mining their own beaches where only their own people go, and that they often kill their own just to stir fellow countrymen up.
I had to have a proper gander at THAT gem!
It shows how they just cannot win a fair trial in the Western World, where the brilliant voting people will accept George W Bush as their great leader, coincidentally the hard-working politician son of a former pres/CIA leader (ferfuxsakewakeupamerica).
 


glasfryn said:
last I heard the supposed shell was actually a palestinian mine and the soldier was taken from a camp in Israel that had been tunnelled into by palestinians.
In fact the former fact was given after the original news release and the BBC had to opoligise.
I wish only that there was peace in the middle east can't be to much to ask.

people always said there would never be peace in northern Ireland but there is a semblence of peace there at the moment and I take heart from that.

I can't take heart from the 'facts' that many people immediately believe ANYTHING said against the Palestinians, in favour of the Israelis. I mean, it MUST be fact, the Western press being owned by...... erm...... unbiased .....erm...... (choke, cough).


The bottom line for me, is that innocent civilians are victimised, killed, maimed, their cities ruined, their houses destroyed, their shops blown apart, their family destroyed. Yeah, that's going to stop the conflict, blowing apart someone's kids, wife, sisters and brothers.........sssspread the luuuurve!

When this episode blows over, does anyone think peace will reside in all hearts and minds? I would imagine it is an EXCELLENT recruitment drive for otherwise civil people to become resentful and join the extreme. Can anyone honestly say they would pick up the pieces of their wife, child, in their destroyed home, and move on with a peaceful mind?
 
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and why does it take Condaleeza Rice two weeks to make such an 'important visit' ?

"Hey Mr Sharon, how long do you need to bomb innocent people - we'll sit and watch, then come over just at the right time to be seen to influence you to stop killing them, will that be alright? Thanks"
 


algie

The moaning of life
Jan 8, 2006
14,713
In rehab
Blame Hezbollah for starting it.They killed there soldiers and kidnapped them.They deserve the full force of Israel.Why do Lebonese government have they these militants in there country in the first place?I get fed up with hearing this 1967 resolution.Sort them out Israel and Hammas for good this time
 


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