What would you consider an improvement next season?

[Icy Gull]

Playoffs would be good but I'd happily settle for being there or thereabouts playing good football more often than some of the crap seen too often in recent seasons. So I'd be happy with seeing the Albion come out at Withdean going for the opposition, not sitting back as we did last season and a decent cup run in at least one cup competition culminating with at least one victory against a higher division team. A bit of cup fever on a long run would compensate for missing out on promotion.

Promotion and a cup run would be my idea of an ideal season although a more consistent level of decent football to watch would constitute an improvement to me as it would also bring in bigger crowds. I'd be happy with that even if we didn't make the playoffs..

 

[BensGrandad]

I hope for promotion by any means either play off or automatic but will not be too despondant if that doesnt happen because I believe that in the long term the appointment of MA will benefit us. If we do not get promotion this season we WILL next so I see his appointment as good move irrespective of what people may think about DK and his motives. I do not think that DK will be pulling the purse strings in 2 years time, I do not know who will but think that he wont.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Why do you keep saying that?

Whilst replacing Wilkins may well have been the correct move, the way Knight did it was wrong and still has the look of him seeing the Albion as his toy. Now one of the reasons given for the changes was that Adams would take us forward, so if we do not finish in the top 6 then the decision and Knights chairmanship has to be called into question. I doubt Knight would have the courage or humility to concede that he might have got things wrong though.

Will the club be having a Fans Forum in the next few weeks?

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Vaguely edible food at half time would be a quite something too, wouldn't it? Well.....ermmmmm.........maybe not then

 

[Seagull73]

I think he had pretty much won over a lot of the fans - not that he should have needed to in the first place. You clearly don't remember his days as a player then? Where do you think the name Wendy came from?

Whether some of the players didn't get on with him I couldn't comment on. Not in a position to.Good

But, I do think he was probably up against it as far as juggling day to day coaching and the more admin / man management side of things.No more than any other manager we have had, he just wasn't up to all of it, as he proved

When he replaced McGhee as manager was Wilkins ever REALLY replaced as a quality training field coach there to help the manager?No probably not, but that was his job to do so. I repeat, he was not any worse off than any other manager we have had.

Did, and I never thought I would see myself type this, we miss a Bob Booker figure who acted as a middle man between manager and player?Possibly, but that didn't excuse Wilkins coming down so heavily in favour of the players. His first loyalty is to his employers, plain and simple.

Your arguments against him being sacked are not overly convincing

 

[pasty]

Points total to me is irrelevant. Only final league position counts, so the only way to improve on last season would be at least a play-off spot.

Would anyone really be happy with finishing say 10th, but "oh its alright we got one more point than last year"

 

[maffew]

cant understand why people would be happy with more points but a lower position

Auto promotion looks tough, 4th with however many point I reckon

 

[Trufflehound]

Seeing the diggers on site at Falmer would be a VAST improvement on last season.

[Metallica]Nothing else matters[/Metallica]

 

[Falmer Faithful]

.

 

[Mr Banana]

So I've heard, but unofficially of course as the club haven't had the balls to issue a statement giving the real reason.

Have you ever heard of a confidentiality agreement?

The football under Wilkins was crap, amateur stuff over the last couple of seasons, so irrespective of where we finish I will be happy to see a better standard. Better football should mean a better position, but I don't think it's as simple as saying "we should do better than 7th" blah blah blah...Wilkins wouldn't have got us into the play-offs next season, Adams might not either (remember his first year at Wankdean), but I've no doubt he will take us up by the time we get to Falmer, which Wilkins wouldn't have managed.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Have you ever heard of a confidentiality agreement?

The football under Wilkins was crap, amateur stuff over the last couple of seasons, so irrespective of where we finish I will be happy to see a better standard. Better football should mean a better position, but I don't think it's as simple as saying "we should do better than 7th" blah blah blah...Wilkins wouldn't have got us into the play-offs next season, Adams might not either (remember his first year at Wankdean), but I've no doubt he will take us up by the time we get to Falmer, which Wilkins wouldn't have managed.

However if the football under Adams is akin to his first full season under him, it will not be all that exciting or attacking. He was very much in favour of 3 centre backs and getting the ball up to the strikers, early.

 

[Dandyman]

Course not. He was sacked for a CHEAP PR stunt...

or in a desperate attempt to get more bums on seats before Falmer?

 

[Dave the OAP]

Gotta be playoffs no matter how many points that requires. Why bring in Adams if we were happy with our league position last year?!
:

exactomundo

 

[Brovion]

Have you ever heard of a confidentiality agreement?

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Er, yeah, which is why I said I wasn't expecting to know all the details. But I certainly would have appreciated being told the truth (the club were unhappy about certain off-field situations) as opposed to it being presented as just a slight backroom re-jig in the happy ship that is the Albion. Whatever you thought of the football he was quite a successful manager who was throw in at the deep end by a panicking board who thought it would be a popular appointment. No he wasn't the greatest but he was learning and it appears to me (as someone who doesn't know the inside story) that he received no support from the people who shoved the poisoned chalice into his hands in the first place. Indeed they appear to have quickly changed their minds about his suitablility and rather than look at their own failings and what changes they could have made to support him (removing him totally from contract negotiations perhaps and letting him concentrate on coaching) they simply dumped him and made what they hope will be (yet another) popular apppointment.

I suppose by the Law of Averages they must get it right eventually; hopefully the football and achievements will be better under Adams. Hopefully.

 

[ROSM]

No he wasn't the greatest but he was learning and it appears to me (as someone who doesn't know the inside story) that he received no support from the people who shoved the poisoned chalice into his hands in the first place. Indeed they appear to have quickly changed their minds about his suitablility and rather than look at their own failings and what changes they could have made to support him (removing him totally from contract negotiations perhaps and letting him concentrate on coaching) they simply dumped him and made what they hope will be (yet another) popular apppointment.

no support? or required too much support? or indeed didn't accept the support?When you employ someone for a role it is either because they have the skills, or you believe they can develop the skills they dont have or because what they dont have can be covered elsewhere long term.

I think we all accept he wan't in the first category so it must have been one of the other two. Most likely the second but could have been the third. If he didn't develop then he fails on that point, and if (as Y2dave has said and as I have said many times on here I heard via an agent in Jan) that he was (perhaps unintentionally) undermining the efforts of others to do what he didn't have then the move needs to be made. The comments claimed to have been made to Paul Reid (if true) were probably the final straw and I think that is when the decision was made

Anyway it's all history. Pure and simple you are judged publicly by results and privately on a number of factors (hence why so many feel wilkins has been harshly treated). Therefore as a member of the public I would say play offs as a minimum would be improvment - although the club may well view improvement on more than just this.

 

[Brovion]

no support? or required too much support? or indeed didn't accept the support?When you employ someone for a role it is either because they have the skills, or you believe they can develop the skills they dont have or because what they dont have can be covered elsewhere long term.

To be frank the answers to those questions are almost irrelevant. The interesting point is your second sentence: 'when you employ someone'. Wilkins was not some stranger who answered an ad in the Argus saying 'Manager required', he'd been at the club for, what, seventeen years. Are you saying that in that time no one had bothered to work out what his strengths and weaknesses were? If so that is quite a damming condemnation of the club as an employer.

I'm sorry but it's very hard not to come to the conclusion that he was poorly managed and let down by people who should have known better.

 

[ROSM]

To be frank the answers to those questions are almost irrelevant. The interesting point is your second sentence: 'when you employ someone'. Wilkins was not some stranger who answered an ad in the Argus saying 'Manager required', he'd been at the club for, what, seventeen years. Are you saying that in that time no one had bothered to work out what his strengths and weaknesses were? If so that is quite a damming condemnation of the club as an employer.
.

no, I'm saying they knew his weaknesses and felt he could either develop to cover them or they could be covered elsewhere within the club.

However nobody can legislate for someone going off the rails (for example). I (a few years ago) promoted someone internally. About six months later he got a superiority complex and was causing issues with a high handed attitude - including undermining his colleagues in meetings etc. Wanted to take control of the positive stuff but didn't want to own the bad stuff.

Did I foresee that happening? NO;
Were his public results good YES but with no lonegivity to them
Did his team enjoy working with him? NO
Did I try and mentor him? YES;
Did he accept mine of others help? NO
Did we consider demoting him? YES but ruled it out as a non starter
Is he now furthering his career elsewhere? YES but at a lower level.

 

[Brovion]

no, I'm saying they knew his weaknesses and felt he could either develop to cover them or they could be covered elsewhere within the club.

However nobody can legislate for someone going off the rails (for example). I (a few years ago) promoted someone internally. About six months later he got a superiority complex and was causing issues with a high handed attitude - including undermining his colleagues in meetings etc. Wanted to take control of the positive stuff but didn't want to own the bad stuff.

Did I foresee that happening? NO;
Were his public results good YES but with no lonegivity to them
Did his team enjoy working with him? NO
Did I try and mentor him? YES;
Did he accept mine of others help? NO
Did we consider demoting him? YES but ruled it out as a non starter
Is he now furthering his career elsewhere? YES but at a lower level.

I do think you're blabbering a bit now in quoting one example where you incorrectly promoted someone, but interestingly the one thing you apparently didn't do is the solution I was proposing - restructuring his job so that it concentrated on his strengths. (With the admission you got it wrong in the first place).

Of course internal appointments don't always work - look at Bob Booker. The key thing with Booker is that he might have been brilliant at the peripheral side (getting on well with the players etc), but when it came down to his core function, getting results, he was a failure. And unlike your chap Wilkins results will have longevity to them. Leaving aside the young players he nurtured you can't alter last year's league table.

 

[ROSM]

I do think you're blabbering a bit now in quoting one example where you incorrectly promoted someone, but interestingly the one thing you apparently didn't do is the solution I was proposing - restructuring his job so that it concentrated on his strengths. (With the admission you got it wrong in the first place).

Of course internal appointments don't always work - look at Bob Booker. The key thing with Booker is that he might have been brilliant at the peripheral side (getting on well with the players etc), but when it came down to his core function, getting results, he was a failure. And unlike your chap Wilkins results will have longevity to them. Leaving aside the young players he nurtured you can't alter last year's league table.

I'm not saying that wilkins was doing all the things that this other chap was doing (or indeed any of them) just giving an example where you never know until the decision is made just how someone is going to behave. The club extended wilkins' contract after a year so he must have been doing something right! Obviously he then did something wrong and whatvere or whenever that happened, it affected the situation enough to cause a parting of the ways.

As for restructuring a job, if the actual responsibility and carrying out the corporate line IS a key part of the job then to restructure it without that would in effect be a demotion.

 

[Blackadder]

The reason I was asking was I was thinking, suppose we get 80 points next season, and still not get into the Play-offs?

It's still a pretty decent improvement on the previous year, and that's what we're looking for etc.

I appreciate that I am in the minority, and of course I would rather we reached the playoffs, but in the unlikely event that we got 80 points (but failed to make the play-offs) I would have to consider it an improvement. It would also bode very well for the following season.