What....No Offical England V Ukraine Match Thread

[Simster]

Bored? Trying to start up an argument with an un-provoked attack?!

I'm only JOSHING, sheebs, after you got stroppy with me last week for daring to disagree with you!

 

[Tricky Dicky]

that was the real disssapointment last night. Under Peter Taylor, England played some really good stuff a la Gus, but our chances, what they were, involved a couple of hoof, a long range free kick and a corner....the rest was truly awful, I ended up switching over to watch Leicester Foxes playing 20/20 in Army Fatigues

Those army fatigues were a bit odd, weren't they

 

[Sheebo]

I'm only JOSHING, sheebs, after you got stroppy with me last week for daring to disagree with you!

Look, just cos the national team is proudly the 6th best team in the world, it doesn't been the under 21's are going to follow up the this incredible achievement

 

[simmo]

You're so wrong though Simmo.

Are you telling me that the likes of Iniesta and Messi have zero 'bulldog spirit'?? Ok they don't pump their chests out and go flying into tackles and tell you how passionate they are but there is an inner desire in there to be the best, that is what gets them practising on the training grounds long after most British players will have gone home.

I have read numerous numbers of your posts and probably think you are winding me up so I am not sure we are going to have a sensible conversation or not but if not here goes, again it comes down to definition of bulldog spirit (all players have spirit par se otherwise they wouldn't be a professional).

Let me clarify with maybe a better phrase than bulldog spirit....last night was a typical English performance. What does that mean to me, well lots of huff and puff running up and down a pitch endlessly. Two big centre halfs (one with a loud mouth who shouts at all his team mates to "Get stuck in") who lump the ball up to the big fella up front who one in ten times nods the ball down to two wingers who can run the 100 metres in 11 seconds but can hardly cross the ball and between all 11 and this is the most important thing they can barely string 3 passes together to each other.

That is a typical England performance and what has this got us in the last 46 years, nada.

What Messi and Iniesta have is skill and the ability to not give the ball away, possession really is 9/10 of the law in international football especially (and on last nights performance not one of our U21 players I would classify as having skill). As does Ronaldo whom has zero bulldog spirit...but he is a better footballer than any English player (and I can't stand the bloke).

Thankfully in Gus we are trying to move away from this and we are very lucky to have him.

 

[crodonilson]

I have read numerous numbers of your posts and probably think you are winding me up so I am not sure we are going to have a sensible conversation or not but if not here goes, again it comes down to definition of bulldog spirit (all players have spirit par se otherwise they wouldn't be a professional).

Let me clarify with maybe a better phrase than bulldog spirit....last night was a typical English performance. What does that mean to me, well lots of huff and puff running up and down a pitch endlessly. Two big centre halfs (one with a loud mouth who shouts at all his team mates to "Get stuck in") who lump the ball up to the big fella up front who one in ten times nods the ball down to two wingers who can run the 100 metres in 11 seconds but can hardly cross the ball and between all 11 and this is the most important thing they can barely string 3 passes together to each other.

That is a typical England performance and what has this got us in the last 46 years, nada.

What Messi and Iniesta have is skill and the ability to not give the ball away, possession really is 9/10 of the law in international football especially (and on last nights performance not one of our U21 players I would classify as having skill). As does Ronaldo whom has zero bulldog spirit...but he is a better footballer than any English player (and I can't stand the bloke).

Thankfully in Gus we are trying to move away from this and we are very lucky to have him.

No wind up, I agree with you. I just think that players abroad have just as much spirit but due to their superior technique they don't need to show it by pumping out their chests and hurtling into tackles.

England do provide technically quality players, think of the likes of Hoddle, Wilkins, Anderton, Scholes etc we just don't seem to value them as highly as they should and build teams around them.

 

[simmo]

No wind up, I agree with you. I just think that players abroad have just as much spirit but due to their superior technique they don't need to show it by pumping out their chests and hurtling into tackles.

England do provide technically quality players, think of the likes of Hoddle, Wilkins, Anderton, Scholes etc we just don't seem to value them as highly as they should and build teams around them.

I agree we have produced technical skilful players, but I think as a general rule it is more important in England in that younger players that they are big and strong have a good engine, likes getting stick in, is lightning fast etc. rather than being the most important thing being good with ball at their feet.

This costs us dear in tournaments and it is really evident with England's U21's more than the first XI (even though against top notch opposition it shows there too). It's a mindset in England I guess and I am sure it will never change in my life.....maybe not all is lost though if more managers like Gus come to the fore in the English domestic game maybe it will.

 

[crodonilson]

I agree we have produced technical skilful players, but I think as a general rule it is more important in England in that younger players that they are big and strong have a good engine, likes getting stick in, is lightning fast etc. rather than being the most important thing being good with ball at their feet.

This costs us dear in tournaments and it is really evident with England's U21's more than the first XI (even though against top notch opposition it shows there too). It's a mindset in England I guess and I am sure it will never change in my life.....maybe not all is lost though if more managers like Gus come to the fore in the English domestic game maybe it will.

One of the fundamental problems is lower age groups the concentration is too much on winning. England Schoolboys and u17's often filled with big powerful six footers, they may be competitive at that level against smaller technically skilfuil players but we know what happens when they go on to play professional football.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But he has gotus to the semis (out on penalties) and runners-up in the last 2 tournaments

There are only 8 teams in the tournament though. You get to the quarter finals without actually kicking a ball. You only have to finish in the top half of your group to make the semis.

And let me guess, we were embarrassed by the first decent team we came up against.....sound familiar? As I say, these young bucks will slot seamlessly into the senior shambles. They need to work on their excuses for failure though. This is one area where they seem to struggle. Remember lads, it's the climate/ball/ref/crushing isolation/long season/ ...........never ever you.