What no Guardian readers?

[Horses Arse]

Middle pages of today's sports section has an article on Germay's fear of racial tension and right wing arseholes jumping on the world cup bandwaggon to drum up violence.

A guy called Gerd Dembowksi of an anti racist organisation is interviewed wearing an Albion T-shirt. Also makes reference to him being an Albion supporter in the article.

After talking about his concerns re. the world cup he is quoted as pointing at his t-shirt celebrating his support of Brighton and Hove Albion saying "if only it was this simple..."

And that is it, no explanation regarding why supporting Brighton is so simple and no explanation as to its relvance to the article.

All a bit weird really.

 

[Jim in the West]

All a bit weird really.

Exactly what I thought....any clues?

 

[Superseagull]

Didn't some German supporters group get invovled during the Fans United protest? Other than that i'm stumped!

 

[Dandyman]

Middle pages of today's sports section has an article on Germay's fear of racial tension and right wing arseholes jumping on the world cup bandwaggon to drum up violence.

A guy called Gerd Dembowksi of an anti racist organisation is interviewed wearing an Albion T-shirt. Also makes reference to him being an Albion supporter in the article.

After talking about his concerns re. the world cup he is quoted as pointing at his t-shirt celebrating his support of Brighton and Hove Albion saying "if only it was this simple..."

And that is it, no explanation regarding why supporting Brighton is so simple and no explanation as to its relvance to the article.

All a bit weird really.

Was reading the article a bit earlier. There were various German fans involved with Fans United. Possibly one of Attila's German friends ?

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Don't expect any gUARDian reeders,to be here now. There down at Ford Open,giving out human rights leaflets.

 

[Screaming J]

Re: Re: What no Guardian readers?

Was reading the article a bit earlier. There were various German fans involved with Fans United. Possibly one of Attila's German friends ?

I was reading it too and reached the same assumption.

 

[Brovion]

Having toured Germany extensively with Attila I can state that there are loads of Germans who have us as their English team. This is partly due, no, mainly due to the messanic zeal with which he preached the Gospel according to Albion. During the Archer years and when Simon Valder was in prison he used to give these impassioned speeches (not just at gigs but at political meetings as well) in which he'd highlight our plight. I can't speak German but even though I couldn't understand the words I was swayed by the emotion.

Special mention, as always, must go to the St Pauli fans who as well as being in the forefront of the German anti-fascist movement sent the largest contingent of foreign fans to both Fans Utd days.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

The World Cup booklet was bloody good, though.

 

[Gazwag]

Is he the extremist member of the Seagulls Party

 

[Dandyman]

Is he the extremist member of the Seagulls Party

Popular Front for the Liberation of Falmer, you bloody splitters !

 

[Deleted User X18H]

What no Guardian readers?


Only when I can't get the Morning Star.

 

[Dandyman]

What no Guardian readers?


Only when I can't get the Morning Star.

I'm sure some kind soul will help you with the long words.

 

[surrey jim]

Middle pages of today's sports section has an article on Germay's fear of racial tension and right wing arseholes jumping on the world cup bandwaggon to drum up violence.

A guy called Gerd Dembowksi of an anti racist organisation is interviewed wearing an Albion T-shirt. Also makes reference to him being an Albion supporter in the article.

After talking about his concerns re. the world cup he is quoted as pointing at his t-shirt celebrating his support of Brighton and Hove Albion saying "if only it was this simple..."

And that is it, no explanation regarding why supporting Brighton is so simple and no explanation as to its relvance to the article.

All a bit weird really.

internet links to article

 

[Dandyman]

Re: Re: What no Guardian readers?

internet links to article

http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/comment/story/0,,1790277,00.html


Fear darkens the German dream of a world party

Donald McRae in Munich
Monday June 5, 2006
The Guardian


Munich
Last week, on a cold and rainy night in Munich, three ordinary but fervent German fans scaled the concrete wall surrounding a battered old football stadium. As the World Cup closed in on them it was time for a symbolic gesture of defiance. Stefan Markt, Mathias Kowoll and Stephan März climbed quietly into the former home of their beloved club, 1860 Munich, whose abandoned Grünwalder Stadium rusts away in the working-class quarter of Giesing.


The club's new ground, the Allianz Arena, which they share with their ancient rivals, Bayern Munich, hosts Friday's World Cup opener between Germany and Costa Rica. And yet, rather than being proud that images of a massively expensive stadium will be seen by billions of viewers across the globe, 1860 Munich supporters feel only despair for their bankrupt club.
When they landed inside the Grünwalder with a bump it seemed a telling insight into the way a supposedly united Germany, staging a World Cup for the first time since the fall of the Berlin Wall, creaks with dissent and unease - whether in the face of rampant commercialism and absurd ticketing policies or more generalised anxieties about hooliganism and the dubious quality of their football team.

To the visitor Munich seemed swamped by World Cup symbols. The onslaught began just outside the airport, where a bizarre arch of a diving Oliver Kahn spanned the autobahn. A crucial fact, that Jens Lehmann replaced Kahn months ago as Germany's goalkeeper, had been conveniently side-stepped by the marketing gurus. King Kahn, after all, plays for Bayern, the enduring powerhouse of German football and the realm of suave World Cup greats and relentlessly smart administrators like Franz Beckenbauer and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.

Beckenbauer had aggressively pursued the building of a World Cup stadium for Bayern - and received planning permission on the condition it would be used by both Munich clubs. Bayern, to the horror of 1860's supporters, got their way. The Allianz Arena now rises up along the same airport autobahn. At night, when illuminated by different colours, it can look quite beautiful.

In the murkier Grünwalder, as the rain fell, the three fans remembered that it was here, in 1966, that their club won their lone Bundesliga championship. "None of us were born then," Kowoll said, "but we know what 1966 also means to England. We understand the same hope and pain as English football."

Forty years on it is striking that, like so many Germans, the 1860 trio believe their country has less chance than England of winning the World Cup. They're also ambivalent about the possibility of the old enemies meeting in the last 16 - at the Allianz. "I have a ticket for that game," Markt shrugged, "but I boycott Allianz."

That bitterness has been deepened by the irony that 1860 have been loaned €11m (£7m) by Bayern to avoid liquidation. Bayern, in exchange, now own 1860's share of the Allianz. "What a mess," Kowoll sighed. "This World Cup has already been bad for us."

The tournament has not been entirely positive for Bayern. Their traditional hold on the national team has been undermined by Jürgen Klinsmann, Germany's maverick coach. "That's what we like about Klinsmann - he pisses off Bayern," Kowoll shouted later in a heaving bar as Germany met Japan in their penultimate pre-World Cup friendly.

The rest of the bar simply groaned at another goal on the big screen. "2-0!" someone yelled in disbelief. "To Japan!"

Even when Germany salvaged a 2-2 draw there was only murmuring discontent. "It will be different when the tournament starts," Kowoll said, "but maybe only Bayern will end up happy - with their new stadium."

The next morning, at Bayern's training ground on Säbener Strasse, not far from the Grünwalder, Rummenigge glides from his presidential office and shakes his head when asked if he feels sympathy for his co-tenants at the Allianz Arena. "My sympathy is not so big. In my 15-year career I got one red card - against 1860. Whenever I played them I was always confronted by their supporters with this red card."

Rummenigge nods when reminded of another Bayern story - that Beckenbauer had supported 1860 as a boy and wanted to join them. He changed his mind only when, playing against 1860's youth team, he was slapped in the face by a belligerent defender. The young Kaiser never forgot the insult and years later persuaded numerous future German greats such as Uli Hoeness and Paul Breitner to play for Bayern after they had initially decided to sign for 1860.

Rummenigge himself turned down 1860 for Bayern. "I made the right choice," he smiles, before turning to the vexing question of Klinsmann.

"Bayern's value has always been clear to the national team. In 1974 we had seven players in the [West] German side that won the World Cup but Klinsmann feels critical towards Bayern - maybe because he played here. He wants to show his independence, but we had much better collaboration with other German managers."

Rummenigge is far too bright to fall for the specific charge that Bayern never recovered from Klinsmann axing another of their heroes, Sepp Maier, as Germany's goalkeeping coach for favouring Kahn over Lehmann. "From my viewpoint that was acceptable - you need an independent coach. With Klinsmann it is more a feeling than specific incidents. You can see and feel his negativity toward us in his attitude."

Nuremberg

An hour's drive from those Munich rivalries, Gerd Dembowksi is consumed by a more dangerous battle. The co-founder of BAAF, Germany's largest fan grouping, and now the head of Flutlicht (Floodlight), a key organisation in the country's struggle against footballing racism, Dembowski rubs his face in fatigue. "I'm exhausted by analysing every single symbol in the build-up to this World Cup. It's quite alarming."

Dembowksi points at the slogan on his T-shirt - celebrating his support of Brighton & Hove Albion. "If only it was this simple ..."

Though happy to discuss how England should take another step towards group qualification against Trinidad & Tobago in Nuremberg on June 15, Dembowski also explores how "the symbol culture in racist football is constantly changing".

He explains: "People once expected a hooligan to look like a skinhead - but in Germany they're now very clean-cut in their American college jackets. But the jackets have numbers and we all know 28 stands for blood and honour, 18 for Hitler, 88 for Heil Hitler. A more surprising phenomenon is that many German racists now come out of hip-hop culture. They use hip-hop beats, but beneath it are subtle racist messages. I have to listen to it to keep up, and the danger is I'll end up singing along while washing the dishes."

Dembowski offers a sobering reminder that, amid genuine belief that this World Cup could produce an exuberant carnival, the old cancer might spread. "I hope it will be peaceful but there was big trouble between German and Polish hooligans last year and they play each other in Dortmund [on June 14]. That match could decide who meets England. No one knows if all the Polish fans will travel as far as Dortmund - or will they just stop at Berlin? We read a lot in the German tabloids about the Poles coming to Berlin to burn it down."

As a German born to Polish parents, and tagged "a Polack" at school, Dembowski is optimistic that Flutlicht will provide visiting fans with more positive World Cup images. "We like the idea of using England's match here in Nuremberg against Trinidad as a football party where we bring fans together rather than separate them."

Dembowski laughs when asked what he expects from England supporters. "They'll be very loud and very drunken. But the dogs who bark loudest never do much. England have done a lot to clean up their problems. But the Poles, for example, have an outdated idea of English hooliganism. They will try to provoke English fans. Hooligans from southern Germany could also come to Nuremberg to attack England. It's the same with Russians on the far right. Their team did not even qualify but they might arrive in force, because Germany is a very symbolic country."

Iran, in contrast, is now "a great symbol to racist German groups. It shows how everything blurs. Iran play first against Mexico in Nuremberg [on June 11] and many right-wing Germans are planning to officially welcome the Iranians. They want to express solidarity with the Iranian president's anti-semitic comments. I think England and Trinidad will give us a nicer mix."

Their match in Nuremberg will be in the shadow of the ghostly building where the Nazis' most hysterical party rallies were held. The anti-German chanting of England fans will bounce off the silent grey walls. "It would be good if they sing their happier songs," Dembowski says quietly.

Berlin

It would be even more surreal to see England supporters in Berlin doing thousands of jerky robot dances in homage to The Crouch - should the beanpole dancer rise dizzyingly above a static Brazilian defence to score the World Cup winner in the final at the Olympiastadion on July 9. If that impossible dream were actually to happen, England's delirious army of ticketless supporters would descend on historic Berlin sites like the Reichstag. Here, beneath the message of Dem Deutschen Volke inscribed across the granite wall, Adidas are creating a 10,000-seat "replica" of the Olympiastadion.

"The only stadium in the world where you'll see Michael Ballack in the afternoon and the Black Eyed Peas at night," Adidas threaten. Even more ominously they're advertising a James Blunt concert at the arena before the final.

Paul Joyce, who writes about the German game for When Saturday Comes, says: "German fans want to welcome supporters from around the world outside the Reichstag or in front of the Brandenburg Gate, where they're expecting 100,000 to watch the big games on giant screens. But they fear Germany will be ungenerous hosts outside the stadium - and too generous inside it. They're right to worry about the team, but off the pitch there's a real chance for a special tournament."

Markus Hesselmann, sports editor of Berlin's Der Tagesspiegel, suggests that "this will be the first World Cup where fans without tickets are welcome. It's a completely new philosophy and I very much hope and expect this to be the best-ever World Cup. But we've been unlucky before - with the Munich Olympics massacre - so who knows?"

Expectations of German success on the pitch, meanwhile, are as muted in Berlin as Munich. Yet Berliners offer a more amused slant on Klinsmann than the Bayern hierarchy. "We like Klinsmann," says Philipp Köster, the founder of Elf Freunde, the stylish German answer to When Saturday Comes. "German fans are much more realistic now. In 1990, 95% of Germans believed we'd win the World Cup. Now it's only 20%. That's a sign we will enjoy the tournament - even if, at best, we go out in the quarters. Klinsmann is like a psycho-guru. He gets the team to build a circle and shout, in English, 'stability' or 'force'. It's very funny and very Californian. And because it's not very German it seems an interesting experiment - especially when we end up watching the final in Berlin without our own team."

It is hard to avoid an overpowering sense of history at the Olympiastadion. The same five Olympic rings stand above the entrance, as black as they were in August 1936 when, surrounded by swastikas fluttering against a leaden sky, Hitler, Goebbels and 100,000 Germans stared down from a towering height as Jesse Owens won his four gold medals.

"I think this stadium is actually more powerful than the Allianz Arena," Hesselmann says with a certainty which will thrill 1860 Munich hearts. "Inside the Allianz, a futuristic stadium built by Swiss architects, you could be anywhere in the world. You feel the difference here, in Berlin, in this arena. It's almost the exact 1936 stadium - and yet it's the strongest symbol of the new Germany. This stadium proves we don't brush away the past any more. We learn from it and we take responsibility for it. But we also move on, out of this history, to give the world a great finale to the best tournament we have yet seen. That, at least, is our plan."

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Dandy, are you sure you got the whole article?

 

[Dandyman]

Dandy, are you sure you got the whole article?

 

[London Irish]

It's almost certainly a Fans Utd reference, but either McRea or the subs should have explained that to the vast majority of the Graun's readership which wouldn't get that.

 

[Wozza]

Especially as The Guardian was the only big paper not to report on Fans United.

The COCKs.

 

[Mr Banana]

Nyaah. Gotta love The Guardian. Still appears to be produced by students but full of top quality writing (apart from the subbing. And the sport. Well, the sport in there is quite good, but Henry Winter et al at The Torygraph have set a different level for broadsheet sport.)

Are the world cup postcards in there today any good?

 

[zefarelly]

Nyaah. Gotta love The Guardian. Still appears to be produced by students

BUt Atilla doesn't work there anymore ?