[Finance] What is 'rich' in 2023?

[Rowdey]

Not having read whole thread, but in a discussion with friends, where the line is drawn on working/middle class.

I'm working class.. i ( and the wife) need to work to live (well) - Middle class arrives when one parent is not working by choice, and kids go to Private School..

In that particular discussion, all attendant friends were the latter (and quite 'rich' in my eyes)

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not having read whole thread, but in a discussion with friends, where the line is drawn on working/middle class.

I'm working class.. i ( and the wife) need to work to live (well) - Middle class arrives when one parent is not working by choice, and kids go to Private School..

In that particular discussion, all attendant friends were the latter (and quite 'rich' in my eyes)

If you have to work, or your main source of income is from work, you are working class. If you don't, then you are ruling class. Them's the rules

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not having read whole thread, but in a discussion with friends, where the line is drawn on working/middle class.

I'm working class.. i ( and the wife) need to work to live (well) - Middle class arrives when one parent is not working by choice, and kids go to Private School..

In that particular discussion, all attendant friends were the latter (and quite 'rich' in my eyes)

I have always agreed with the George Orwell idea that class is based more on your values, beliefs and traditions than wealth. With this in mind I have always felt I’m working class.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I have always agreed with the George Orwell idea that class is based more on your values, beliefs and traditions than wealth. With this in mind I have always felt I’m working class.

Where someone sits at the Amex is probably a fair indicator of wealth / class, presumably you sit in the North stand?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Where someone sits at the Amex is probably a fair indicator of wealth / class, presumably you sit in the North stand?

You've just posted the exact opposite of what you quoted, or have I been whooshed

 

[beorhthelm]

I have always agreed with the George Orwell idea that class is based more on your values, beliefs and traditions than wealth. With this in mind I have always felt I’m working class.

what are those values and beliefs that seperate class? the definition is very blurred these days, if was ever formally defined, but being uni educated, working for salary and owning property is definately middle class. its a classification, not a sense of self. reckon British are possibly unique in holding on to being working class as they improve their lifestyle. not simply "proud of roots" but insisting that they are the same as their ancestors down pit or in mill.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Why income, I don't earn anything from employment and retired 59?

 

[um bongo molongo]

I don't think I know anyone whose salary increases in recent years have enabled them to do much more than stand still. The only people I know who are getting meaningfully richer are people who clear their mortgage and so drastically reduce their outgoings. This is less a function of salary and more one of when (and if) you bought a house. I was lucky to be able to buy my current house in 2015 with a 30% deposit. Had I been a few years older and bought it in 2005 the total cost of the house would have been less than what's still left on my mortgage and I'd probably be mortgage free by now. Crazy. And crazier still, I'm one of the lucky ones especially compared to young people today.

This pretty much exactly sums up my situation. I’m fortunate to have a pretty good salary that many would class as ‘rich’ I’m sure. But I’m also heavily mortgaged and with significant expenses with two young kids living in London (which I need to do for said salary, albeit I do like London). Wife not yet returned to work after our second kid so her expenses coming out of my salary. Childcare costs in London are insane as well so even when she does return to work, most of it will go on childcare, at least until the youngest is old enough to go to school. I certainly don’t feel rich, and I do feel some resentment at boomers who bought their house for next to nothing and still look down at the following generations (whilst simultaneously pulling up the ladder through tuition fees, Brexit etc). I appreciate many boomers do understand this, but many seem not to. I suspect I’m a similar age to you and while I resent having neighbours who bought their house for 20% of the price of mine just by being born 10-15 years earlier, I have huge sympathy for those younger than me who pretty much have to give up owning one anywhere nice, unless they inherit. I’m very fortunate compared to them.

 

[um bongo molongo]

Yes definitely. That’s the problem with somewhere like Brighton- the housing market is driven by the wealth of London, but it’s very difficult to earn that kind of money in Brighton.

I agree with this. I’m born and raised in Brighton but have lived in London for the last 25 years (since I was 21). My wife is from up north but has no interest in moving there, but has expressed an interest in moving to Brighton. But house prices are very similar, other expenses mostly unchanged, and earning potential much lower. Which means I’m in a very odd position in that I live in London and couldn’t afford to move back to Brighton!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

what are those values and beliefs that seperate class? the definition is very blurred these days, if was ever formally defined, but being uni educated, working for salary and owning property is definately middle class. its a classification, not a sense of self. reckon British are possibly unique in holding on to being working class as they improve their lifestyle. not simply "proud of roots" but insisting that they are the same as their ancestors down pit or in mill.

I sincerely hope I’m never defined by my job or owning a property. This seems rather sad to me.

 

[beorhthelm]

I sincerely hope I’m never defined by my job or owning a property. This seems rather sad to me.

thats the whole point of "class" though. its not to define you as a person, it indicates groups of relative income and wealth. seems some prefer nowadays to claim a class thinking that means something about character, thats not what the concept is about. what are the values you think define you as working class? i expect someone middle class will share them, or they are political values, a different kettle of worms.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

thats the whole point of "class" though. its not to define you as a person, it indicates groups of relative income and wealth. seems some prefer nowadays to claim a class thinking that means something about character, thats not what the concept is about.

I disagree. You can have rich working class and poor upper class people.

 

[Live by the sea]

Exactly - upper class people owning a stately mansion that they can’t afford to properly maintain or heat .

In the US, it’s not really class like in England . The only thing that really matters is whether you can afford it .

 

[Knocky's Nose]

A few good points in this thread, and I'll echo a few sentiments.

I was brought up in poverty, in a council house, in.. Bradford. That's a start in life akin to a juggler losing both arms in a freak accident. Anyway...

I learnt that being 'poor' was always worrying about bills. I learnt that humiliation was your Dad having his car towed away for not being able to make the payments. I learnt that not being able to go anywhere on holiday like the rest of my friends was hard to accept.

From that, I now see 'rich' as not worrying about bills, being able to afford payments for whatever I've bought on strap (car and house is my limit - everything else I save for), and being able to go on holiday 2-3 times a year. These bills can be small (small house, low bills, cheap car, budget holidays) or large (opposite of the previous). But, if you can pay them with no worries, to me, you're rich.

I've had a good amount of money, and I've had no money - but the happiest moments of my life were, oddly, when I was skint! Life is much simpler, pleasures are simpler, and you seem to value friends and family that much more. Maybe it's me.

In my business I've dealt with Pop Stars, Film Stars, Footballers, and the High Net Worth Business Owners and Captains of industry. Not one of them have ever seemed truly happier than the people I've dealt with living in small houses with what you'd class 'normal possessions'. The more wealthy or famous people get, the more isolated they seem to become. That's only my own experience, for what it's worth.

Inflation has royally shafted our wage packets and business earnings - so as the OP rightly said, what was a lot a few years ago is bugger all now...

I think on the sunny South Coast you can live a very comfortable life on a combined income of £80k - £100k, so that's 'rich' to me. I'm just below that at the moment, having been well above it before Brexit slid the hand of doom up the arse of my business...

And to a previous poster, one of my life's sayings is 'Money makes Money' as my dear Nan always used to say it. It's so true.

On a final note, happiness comes from inside - not outside. Material possessions don't make you genuinely happy in the long term - only at the point of purchase, and maybe for a few days after that. If it's a fancy car, it will become a pain in the arse. If it's a boat, it'll suck cash like NooNoo from the Teletubbies. I speak from experience.

Over and out.

 

[Cornwallboy]

You've just posted the exact opposite of what you quoted, or have I been whooshed

No I haven't. You haven't been 'whooshed' (whatever that is). Funny how HT hasn't replied to me.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I have always agreed with the George Orwell idea that class is based more on your values, beliefs and traditions than wealth. With this in mind I have always felt I’m working class.

Where do you sit at the Amex?

 

[WATFORD zero]

No I haven't. You haven't been 'whooshed' (whatever that is). Funny how HT hasn't replied to me.

HT said

I have always agreed with the George Orwell idea that class is based more on your values, beliefs and traditions than wealth. With this in mind I have always felt I’m working class.

So you immediately reply with a question which you say is about wealth

Where someone sits at the Amex is probably a fair indicator of wealth / class, presumably you sit in the North stand?

Maybe that's why you haven't had a reply, because in his first statement, he made it clear that he thought wealth was irrelevant to class. I sit in the North Stand, what do you believe that says about my 'wealth'

 

[Cornwallboy]

HT said



So you immediately reply with a question which you say is about wealth



Maybe that's why you haven't had a reply, because in his first statement, he made it clear that he thought wealth was irrelevant to class. I sit in the North Stand, what do you believe that says about my 'wealth'

Ah yes that would be why he didn't answer my question.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I have always agreed with the George Orwell idea that class is based more on your values, beliefs and traditions than wealth. With this in mind I have always felt I’m working class.

Same here, you must be like me a fellow northstander?

 

[Cornwallboy]

I have always agreed with the George Orwell idea that class is based more on your values, beliefs and traditions than wealth. With this in mind I have always felt I’m working class.

Working class but I sit in the.........1901!!!!