[Albion] Was it a penalty?

[jackalbion]

So if you win the ball but absolutely smash the attacker that’s fair game? Sorry no, I disagree.

Yes, we’ve seen Van Hecke or Dunk do it this season and be massively praised for it, I think it’s a poor decision and would be over turned if we were playing let’s say, Wolves. Like March v Villa last season.

 

[Deadly Danson]

It’s obviously up to the ref to apply the rules and make calls on the subjective elements.

Regarding your last paragraph I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. You’re not allowed to “trip” opponents, intentionally or not, and this is what Lamprey did.

So every time a goalkeeper comes out in a hurry and gets a slight touch on the ball but brings the player down in the process it's a penalty? We know that's not the case - we've seen in dozens of times this season.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So every time a goalkeeper comes out in a hurry and gets a slight touch on the ball but brings the player down in the process it's a penalty? We know that's not the case - we've seen in dozens of times this season.

Obviously only if it’s a foul.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Haven't you spent much of the last 2 weeks crying about Di Zerbi's opinion in pre and post match interviews?

No. No I haven’t. Feel free to try and find a quote.

Have you got out of bed the wrong side?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

It’s obviously up to the ref to apply the rules and make calls on the subjective elements.

Regarding your last paragraph I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. You’re not allowed to “trip” opponents, intentionally or not, and this is what Lamprey did.

When you try to simply the rule without the context, all you do is open every challenge up to being a free kick or penalty. That’s the beauty of football - not every trip is a foul.

You have to be careless, reckless or use excessive force.

I’d argue he does none of that. And in tripping him, he deviates the flight of the ball leading to Jesus losing control of it, and manufacturing contact. I’d argue he’s manufacturing that contact before it even happens, which is another issue.

The fact that the referee didn’t take the time to double check is a major issue as he made the decision so quickly and there’s no guarantees he saw the deviation of ball flight, which is a contributing factor.

Either way, it’s not a foul for me. We certainly don’t get that the other way around. And if people continue to simplify this, then you need to be giving 20 penalties a game, and it really does give attackers license to manufacture that contact.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

I have seen it described as a common misconception, that if a defender gets the ball first it is o k .
The rules don’t specifically say that. As I see it , if a defender makes a tackle in the box that the ref judges to to be careless or reckless, he can award a penalty.
If only referees were consistent .......

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

When you try to simply the rule without the context, all you do is open every challenge up to being a free kick or penalty. That’s the beauty of football - not every trip is a foul.

You have to be careless, reckless or use excessive force.

I’d argue he does none of that. And in tripping him, he deviates the flight of the ball leading to Jesus losing control of it, and manufacturing contact. I’d argue he’s manufacturing that contact before it even happens, which is another issue.

The fact that the referee didn’t take the time to double check is a major issue as he made the decision so quickly and there’s no guarantees he saw the deviation of ball flight, which is a contributing factor.

Either way, it’s not a foul for me. We certainly don’t get that the other way around. And if people continue to simplify this, then you need to be giving 20 penalties a game, and it really does give attackers license to manufacture that contact.

He hooked his foot, that’s a trip to me and a “careless” one at that given he got so very little of the ball ….and daft given it was in the box. Emmanuel Petit made a good assessment, he said it was inexperience on Lamptey’s part as he didn’t need to tackle but use his body positioning.

And we certainly do get penalties the other way around..see earlier posts.

 

[Hotchilidog]

That doesn’t make the votes unbiased or informed. Even De Zerbi agreed it was a penalty

So what? De Zerbi is probably bored of getting in trouble with the authorities and in all fairness Arsenal were the better team so little point in him kicking up a stink. I however can still afford to be less charitable towards the officials who were utter toilet

 

[martin tyler]

It probably is in hindsight. He does nick the ball but the man is still going past him and he brings him down. I know I’d be upset if it wasn’t given the other way. Doesn’t help people when some obvious things are not given this season based on a slight touch and some are again referees have over complicated it. Tariq needed to be slightly smarter about his bearings. Jesus is always going to go down the minute he felt contact in the box. That tackle needed to come in a second earlier before he’s driven back into the box.
Those who don’t think it’s a penalty may say goals change games but let’s be honest they are far superior across the pitch and deserved there 3 points. The title race is actually quite fascinating for once

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I believe he won the ball, because he touched it first. That is evident, the intention was the win the ball and he did win the ball. I think it’s incredibly harsh, RDZ doesn’t seem to care anymore.

When I think of winning I don’t think of going into a tackle, largely missing the ball so I only get the faintest of touches, and then hooking the opponents foot. This does explain a lot about English footballing attitudes though.

 

[Bozza]

He hooked his foot, that’s a trip to me and a “careless” one at that given he got so very little of the ball ….and daft given it was in the box. Emmanuel Petit made a good assessment, he said it was inexperience on Lamptey’s part as he didn’t need to tackle but use his body positioning.

And we certainly do get penalties the other way around..see earlier posts.

I'm not arguing against you, but in a classic sliding tackle a defender will wrap their foot around the ball and trip the attacker in a single motion. No one ever calls for fouls for these, because the defender "got the ball".

Players are legitimately tripped all the time in tackles, with no suggestion of a foul being awarded.

That said, I've long thought that "getting the ball" can't be a fail-safe get-out-of-jail card for whatever else happens after contact with the ball.

Lamptey's contact with the ball was very slight, but that's also the case when an attacker is running through on goal, a defender slides in and trips the attacker. When slow-mo footage shows the defender got a slight touch on the ball, then it's immediately not a foul nor penalty. In these situations, regardless of the defender's touch on the ball, the attacker would have been well-placed to score had he not also been tripped.

 

[jackalbion]

When I think of winning I don’t think of going into a tackle, largely missing the ball so I only get the faintest of touches, and then hooking the opponents foot. This does explain a lot about English footballing attitudes though.

I think the person who used the goalkeeping analogy said it best, don’t think we will agree. I think winning the ball is directing it somewhere else, and making the opposition lose control of it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

So what? De Zerbi is probably bored of getting in trouble with the authorities and in all fairness Arsenal were the better team so little point in him kicking up a stink. I however can still afford to be less charitable towards the officials who were utter toilet

In general the officiating in the first half was so bad it was bordering on suspicious. The penalty is about the only thing they got right.

De Zerbi changing character is a clue but the acid test is if we’d have appealed for it if it was us. To a man and woman we would have.

 

[sagaman]

Poor tackle by Lamptey who also had Adringa near to help him

 

[Hotchilidog]

In general the officiating in the first half was so bad it was bordering on suspicious. The penalty is about the only thing they got right.

De Zerbi changing character is a clue but the acid test is if we’d have appealed for it if it was us. To a man and woman we would have.

We would have appealed but on seeing the replay even I would agree it wasn’t a penalty. That said I am done talking round in circles about this incident. We got beat by the better team, I’m sure Arsenal would have won even without the dodgy pen.

 

[DFL JCL]

I'm not arguing against you, but in a classic sliding tackle a defender will wrap their foot around the ball and trip the attacker in a single motion. No one ever calls for fouls for these, because the defender "got the ball".

Players are legitimately tripped all the time in tackles, with no suggestion of a foul being awarded.

That said, I've long thought that "getting the ball" can't be a fail-safe get-out-of-jail card for whatever else happens after contact with the ball.

Lamptey's contact with the ball was very slight, but that's also the case when an attacker is running through on goal, a defender slides in and trips the attacker. When slow-mo footage shows the defender got a slight touch on the ball, then it's immediately not a foul nor penalty. In these situations, regardless of the defender's touch on the ball, the attacker would have been well-placed to score had he not also been tripped.

Lewis did exactly this in the match near the centre circle in the second half. Nothing given. Total lack of consistency. The rule may be clear, but the application of it isn't. If it was consistently applied there would be 20x more fouls given every match.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

He hooked his foot, that’s a trip to me and a “careless” one at that given he got so very little of the ball ….and daft given it was in the box. Emmanuel Petit made a good assessment, he said it was inexperience on Lamptey’s part as he didn’t need to tackle but use his body positioning.

And we certainly do get penalties the other way around..see earlier posts.

The debate about whether the tackle was needed is neither here nor there.

I’m don’t believe it was careless. He turned, Lamptey took the ball and changed the direction of it. That’s not careless.

 

[rudolf hucker]

Spoken to 2 Arsenal fans today. Both agree was an awful decision.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm not arguing against you, but in a classic sliding tackle a defender will wrap their foot around the ball and trip the attacker in a single motion. No one ever calls for fouls for these, because the defender "got the ball".

Players are legitimately tripped all the time in tackles, with no suggestion of a foul being awarded.

That said, I've long thought that "getting the ball" can't be a fail-safe get-out-of-jail card for whatever else happens after contact with the ball.

Lamptey's contact with the ball was very slight, but that's also the case when an attacker is running through on goal, a defender slides in and trips the attacker. When slow-mo footage shows the defender got a slight touch on the ball, then it's immediately not a foul nor penalty. In these situations, regardless of the defender's touch on the ball, the attacker would have been well-placed to score had he not also been tripped.

Fair point about legitimate trips and sliding tackles. Thinking about this, and going back to the laws website, all of the following are actually permitted

• charges
• jumps at
• kicks or attempts to kick
• pushes
• strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
• tackles or challenges
• trips or attempts to trip

As long as they are not “ in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force”

If a sliding tackle is executed “correctly” and isn’t using excessive force it shouldn’t result a free kick. Anything outside of this e.g. badly timed/gets the player and/or using excessive force etc and you’re starting to give the referee a decision to make.

On reflection maybe describing Lamptey’s case as a “careless” tackle is better?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The debate about whether the tackle was needed is neither here nor there.

I’m don’t believe it was careless. He turned, Lamptey took the ball and changed the direction of it. That’s not careless.

Bringing him down in the penalty box after he “took the ball” seems careless to me. We’ll have to agree to disagree