[Politics] Votes for 16 year olds

[Thunder Bolt]

Why do people always throw that one back. The fact is you can join the services at 16. You might not be on the frontline but you are certainly part of the machinery of war.

16 year olds can be on board ship and many were killed in war. Torpedoes and missiles don’t discriminate.

 

[Krafty]

It's not about a test, that would never work, this is about asking children to vote. Why the need to drop the age down?

According to Keir Starmer: "If you can work, if you can pay tax, if you can serve in your armed forces, then you ought to be able to vote" and I agree.

 

[Pevenseagull]

I'd have suffrage from birth. A parent or legal guardian to vote on a child's behalf until 16.

Then maybe governments would be more focussed on making the future better.

 

[AZ Gull]

“No taxation without representation” used to be a thing

16 year olds can work full time and pay income tax / NI as a result. Therefore they should get a say in how it’s spent.

It’s quite hard to argue with that logic.

it's an American thing, not sure was ever a view anywhere else.

It's an American thing that doesn't even apply in America; when I was here on a work visa and then as a permanent resident I certainly had to pay taxes, but couldn't vote.

 

[alanfp]

You don't want them to vote because you perceive them as being left wing.

If you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I didn't say that.

My question as to whether there is any evidence for the view that they are likely to vote for a left-ish party remains unanswered.... although you suggest that they would tend to vote Conservative if the current party had a more extreme right wing leader like Thatcher, which I guess is the opposite to what Starmer thinks.

 

[peterward]

I understand that's one of Labour's ideas (sorry if there's already a thread on this, but I couldn't see one).

Personally I'm not in favour, based on the fact that they have such little adult life experience (some won't even have taken their GCSEs) and they haven't been exposed to the breadth of political discussion that most of us only got in our first few years at work or during 'free periods' in the 6th Form.

Also, is there any robust evidence that they really are, on the whole, 'left-leaning'? (which seems to be the rationale behind the suggestion).

It's gerrymandering.

If the demographic wasn't overwhelmingly going to vote more for Labour, they simply wouldn't propose it.

Dont mind Sir Keir generally, but this is nothing more than his plan to entrench himself in power.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's gerrymandering.

If the demographic wasn't overwhelmingly going to vote more for Labour, they simply wouldn't propose it.

Dont mind Sir Keir generally, but this is nothing more than his plan to entrench himself in power.

The OP asked about evidence of the voting intentions of 16 year olds, where did you find this out?

 

[Zeberdi]

Interesting that Conservative supporters are against lowering the voting age.

I am absolutely all for it.

Seeing my niece and her 6th form student friends the morning after the Brexit vote, literally in tears and absolutely gutted that the Leavers had won, convinced me then, they should have had a say in a Constitutional change that has major ramifications for them personally - ie access to funding for research, travelling and work experiences abroad, their very identities as typically outward looking youngsters, precisely at an age where their sense of birthright and belonging is wider and broader than it is for the older generations. They were emotionally crushed. How we did that to a whole generation of young people, I don’t know.

Then I also look at schoolers leading the way in pushing the environmental agenda, how Greta Thunberg sat outside a government building every Friday as a school kid for months and months, inspiring a global movement of like-minded kids fighting to save our planet; how they see adults making or rather failing to make decisions that will directly impact on their generation in the future; how they feel powerless to change the legacy of a severely damaged and polluted world that they know we are leaving them. How they have a keener sense of the urgency of the Climate Crisis, unfettered as they are by the self-interests and complacency they see in the adults in charge of them.

We all need the dreams and idealistic visions of young people - lets give them a chance to help make the future better for all of us because the older generation seems to have run out of both ideas and the belief we can change the world.

So - Absolutely yes, give the most inspired, energised and compassionate age group of our times the right to vote. I feel my future would be a lot safer in their hands than I feel it’s been in the hands of the “grown up” Tories for the past 14 years.

 

[jcdenton08]

Interesting that Conservative supporters are against lowering the voting age.

I am absolutely all for it.

Seeing my niece and her 6th form student friends the morning after the Brexit vote, literally in tears and absolutely gutted that the Leavers had won, convinced me then, they should have had a say in a Constitutional change that has major ramifications for them personally - ie access to funding for research, travelling and work experiences abroad, their very identities as typically outward looking youngsters, precisely at an age where their sense of birthright and belonging is wider and broader than it is for the older generations. They were emotionally crushed. How we did that to a whole generation of young people, I don’t know.

Then I also look at schoolers leading the way in pushing the environmental agenda, how Greta Thunberg sat outside a government building every Friday as a school kid for months and months, inspiring a global movement of like-minded kids fighting to save our planet; how they see adults making or rather failing to make decisions that will directly impact on their generation in the future; how they feel powerless to change the legacy of a severely damaged and polluted world that they know we are leaving them. How they have a keener sense of the urgency of the Climate Crisis, unfettered as they are by the self-interests and complacency they see in the adults in charge of them.

We all need the dreams and idealistic visions of young people - lets give them a chance to help make the future better for all of us because the older generation seems to have run out of both ideas and the belief we can change the world.

So - Absolutely yes, give the most inspired, energised and compassionate age group of our times the right to vote. I feel my future would be a lot safer in their hands than I feel it’s been in the hands of the “grown up” Tories for the past 14 years.

I could write a parody post 100x better than that.

 

[jcdenton08]

Interesting that Conservative supporters are against lowering the voting age.

I am absolutely all for it.

Seeing my niece and her 6th form student friends the morning after the Brexit vote, literally in tears and absolutely gutted that the Leavers had won, convinced me then, they should have had a say in a Constitutional change that has major ramifications for them personally - ie access to funding for research, travelling and work experiences abroad, their very identities as typically outward looking youngsters, precisely at an age where their sense of birthright and belonging is wider and broader than it is for the older generations. They were emotionally crushed. How we did that to a whole generation of young people, I don’t know.

Then I also look at schoolers leading the way in pushing the environmental agenda, how Greta Thunberg sat outside a government building every Friday as a school kid for months and months, inspiring a global movement of like-minded kids fighting to save our planet; how they see adults making or rather failing to make decisions that will directly impact on their generation in the future; how they feel powerless to change the legacy of a severely damaged and polluted world that they know we are leaving them. How they have a keener sense of the urgency of the Climate Crisis, unfettered as they are by the self-interests and complacency they see in the adults in charge of them.

We all need the dreams and idealistic visions of young people - lets give them a chance to help make the future better for all of us because the older generation seems to have run out of both ideas and the belief we can change the world.

So - Absolutely yes, give the most inspired, energised and compassionate age group of our times the right to vote. I feel my future would be a lot safer in their hands than I feel it’s been in the hands of the “grown up” Tories for the past 14 years.

It’s like those posts on Twitter where someone’s “2 year old” says “Mummy, why do these nasty men vote for a party who don’t represent us”. It’s completely made up bollocks used for political clout and makes the poster look insane.

 

[Zeberdi]

I could write a parody post 100x better than that.

It’s like those posts on Twitter where someone’s “2 year old” says “Mummy, why do these nasty men vote for a party who don’t represent us”. It’s completely made up bollocks used for political clout and makes the poster look insane.


View attachment 183253

Your childish responses say far more about you than they do about me.

You’ve convinced me though, for some people, the right to vote should be raised indefinitely on a case by case basis.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting that Conservative supporters are against lowering the voting age.

I am absolutely all for it.

Seeing my niece and her 6th form student friends the morning after the Brexit vote, literally in tears and absolutely gutted that the Leavers had won, convinced me then, they should have had a say in a Constitutional change that has major ramifications for them personally - ie access to funding for research, travelling and work experiences abroad, their very identities as typically outward looking youngsters, precisely at an age where their sense of birthright and belonging is wider and broader than it is for the older generations. They were emotionally crushed. How we did that to a whole generation of young people, I don’t know.

Then I also look at schoolers leading the way in pushing the environmental agenda, how Greta Thunberg sat outside a government building every Friday as a school kid for months and months, inspiring a global movement of like-minded kids fighting to save our planet; how they see adults making or rather failing to make decisions that will directly impact on their generation in the future; how they feel powerless to change the legacy of a severely damaged and polluted world that they know we are leaving them. How they have a keener sense of the urgency of the Climate Crisis, unfettered as they are by the self-interests and complacency they see in the adults in charge of them.

We all need the dreams and idealistic visions of young people - lets give them a chance to help make the future better for all of us because the older generation seems to have run out of both ideas and the belief we can change the world.

So - Absolutely yes, give the most inspired, energised and compassionate age group of our times the right to vote. I feel my future would be a lot safer in their hands than I feel it’s been in the hands of the “grown up” Tories for the past 14 years.

100% agree.

 

[jcdenton08]

Your childish responses say far more about you than they do about me.

You’ve convinced me though, for some people, the right to vote should be raised indefinitely on a case by case basis.

You’ll be the first to admit though, you made that up. I think you lied and we both know the truth.

Remember this; if you have to make things up and lie, you’ve already lost. I don’t mean lost an argument, I mean lost generally in life.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You’ll be the first to admit though, you made that up. I think you lied and we both know the truth.

Remember this; if you have to make things up and lie, you’ve already lost. I don’t mean lost an argument, I mean lost generally in life.

There’s only one sentence in @Zeberdi s post which could possibly be a lie, as the rest is commentary on facts or opinion. Why do you feel he lied about his niece and her friends?

 

[StonehamPark]

Keep it simple, stupid.

Voting Eligibility: 18 years old to 66 years old (or whatever the State Pension age is at the time.)

There’s a hundred reasons both for and against the above, and none will outweigh the other, in my opinion.

I will add though, I personally don’t believe 16 year olds are fit to make major decision that may affect the lives of millions of adults - or affect even their own lives at that age.

 

[nicko31]

I would envision only politically switched on 16 yr olds bothering to go to a polling station.

So maybe not a bad thing in practice but in principle? No. Most 16 yr olds are not fit to vote.

I’m with you Clamp, I have a 16 year old and he’s barely capable of locking the house when he goes out.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I’m with you Clamp, I have a 16 year old and he’s barely capable of locking the house when he goes out.

Whereas I knew absolutely everything by the age of 15, was keen to inform anyone and everyone where they were going wrong, and would have relished a vote

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

“No taxation without representation” used to be a thing

16 year olds can work full time and pay income tax / NI as a result. Therefore they should get a say in how it’s spent.

You can work and be taxed at any age.

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

You need expiriance to vote correctly, which is why you had to be at least 18 years old member of conservitive party to vote in Liz Truss as leader a few years ago.

 

[BBassic]

I'm 39 and I daresay there are probably 16 year olds out there with more political savvy than I have