[Politics] Votes for 16 year olds

[DavidinSouthampton]

Well I have read this twice and can only conclude that your user name is ironic.

But let's go back to your last coherant thought in your previous post to me, your misrepresentation of my point here:

"That isn’t your argument though, because the issue really at hand is that you want those people earning more than you to pay more tax than you.

The sort of petty adolescent argument most people grow out of by the time their brain has fully developed by 25yo (according to the U.K. Govt research)."

You say my argument was that I want people who earn more money than me to pay more tax. You add that this is an adolescent argument that most people grow out of.

In fact this is exactly how the tax system works, people who earn more than me Do pay more tax, just as the people I earn more than pay less than me.

Are you and the other fully developed 25yo+ people advocating a different tax system?

I note with interest that you didn't link to the UK gov research, I suspect this might be for the best.

Yes, people who earn more will pay more tax, which is how it should be.

but then there’s tax avoidance - legal but not necessarily ethical - and tax evasion, which would be illegal.

not that whether 16-18 year olds should vote would be affected by that, but plenty of them would have views on it.

 

[cunning fergus]

It’s a good course syllabus - my A level Politics got me an interview at Oxford to study Law because it engendered an ability for healthy and balanced debate, open mindedness and informed opinions - all good qualities to any prospective University student and certainly for 16-18 year olds to require

You can learn a lot from parody in the past, take the”Demolition” episode of the Young Ones with their take on a youth programme, Nozin Aroun, they knew then what the 16-17 year old constituency wants, I’ve know doubt it’s the same now, and it’s not the vote.

https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=nozin aroun young ones&tbm=vid&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5

Your open mindness for 16-17 year old suffrage seems closed when it comes to their legal right to get on it, watch porn, smoke and gamble, on that you appear closed, just like many U.K. politicians.

It makes absolutely no sense, unless voting is less important than any of the above?

 

[Brovion]

I have no objection providing they also lower the drinking age to 16. If people can be trusted to make an informed choice on their member of parliament then they can also be trusted with a pint of beer.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

When the voting age was still 21, and I was in my 5th form at school, we held a mock election. The result was the same as the General election.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You can learn a lot from parody in the past, take the”Demolition” episode of the Young Ones with their take on a youth programme, Nozin Aroun, they knew then what the 16-17 year old constituency wants, I’ve know doubt it’s the same now, and it’s not the vote.

https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=nozin aroun young ones&tbm=vid&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5

Your open mindness for 16-17 year old suffrage seems closed when it comes to their legal right to get on it, watch porn, smoke and gamble, on that you appear closed, just like many U.K. politicians.

It makes absolutely no sense, unless voting is less important than any of the above?

Your earlier whataboutery made a point about allowing kids to drive trains and fly planes. You can only do these things until the age of 65. On reflection I'd happily trade the 16 year old vote for giving 65 year olds the voting boot. This also ties in with your fully formed brain gibberish; 65 year old swedes will be going a bit mushy by then so best not let them loose with a pencil and a voting slip eh?

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Your earlier whataboutery made a point about allowing kids to drive trains and fly planes. You can only do these things until the age of 65. On reflection I'd happily trade the 16 year old vote for giving 65 year olds the voting boot. This also ties in with your fully formed brain gibberish; 65 year old swedes will be going a bit mushy by then so best not let them loose with a pencil and a voting slip eh?

There is no maximum age to drive a train and you have to be at least 20.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/664353d1993111924d9d3409/lowering-the-minimum-age-requirement-for-train-drivers-from-20-to-18.pdf

 

[cunning fergus]

If you feel so strongly that you want to reduce the age limit for these occupations, which you cleary do as you have mentioned it more times than you did your frenzy over carrying a passport in France (and porn for that matter), then go and campaign for it, knock yourself out, fill your boots. I do not have an opinion on this and do not seem a need to conflate the two. Different courses, different horses.

As for the GE....I personally would introduce a test, or a level of education, that voters need to be able to vote. In the absense of this I'll allow 16+.

It could be said that many on here that want to give 16-17 yo the vote could lobby for it, no one has lobbied for it, its just going to be imposed on the electorate, like VAR was in football, on deceit wrapped up in a tenuous argument that it will make things better.

I don’t recall a frenzy, I recall sharing experience, which turned out right. I never took my passport out on match day on any Europa League trip, in France i was never asked to produce it even by old Bill down by the Old Port another bit of advice I (and others) disregarded on match day. Again that decision proved right based on the experiences shared with me by others about the carnage in the designated square with its warm beer, piss and vomit topped off with a packed coach trip to the velodrome. Not for the group I was with we got the metro.

It’s ironic you raise that because as it happens I’m in Paris, we came out for a trip to Roland Garros. When I got the tix online the terms stated I would need to show passport on arrival at RG to obtain tix. Needless to say when we got there the pictures on our phones were sufficient. Similarly yesterday when we went for a spree in Gallaries Lafayette and Printemps in order to get our 12% discount (thank you Brexit) we didn’t need our passports just the photo with the reference.

My missus used to be like you and many of the drones on here, y’know, a bit of a citizen. These days she laughs at her naivety, proving that you can’t put an old head on young shoulders, or old shoulders that function as a 16-17 year old.

People simply accepting what the “authorities” advise are the most dangerous of all the constituencies in the electorate, and definitely should not get the vote. If we excluded them we wouldn’t get all the bullshit we had with Covid etc.

 

[cunning fergus]

Your earlier whataboutery made a point about allowing kids to drive trains and fly planes. You can only do these things until the age of 65. On reflection I'd happily trade the 16 year old vote for giving 65 year olds the voting boot. This also ties in with your fully formed brain gibberish; 65 year old swedes will be going a bit mushy by then so best not let them loose with a pencil and a voting slip eh?

This is delicious, in a thread about reducing the legal voting age to 16 year olds you think referencing other matters where there are legal age limits is whataboutery?

It’s the absolute essence of the debate, why should a 16 year old vote if they can’t legally be an MP?

They can’t get mortgages either, there are so many restrictions that it simply doesn’t make any logical sense. No one for it has yet to provide either a) a coherent reason to support it or b) accept age restrictions in all other areas should be reduced.

I would add politicians for it haven’t satisfied a) or b) either, their recent performance has been to push age of smoking, gambling and marriage all back from 16.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is delicious, in a thread about reducing the legal voting age to 16 year olds you think referencing other matters where there are legal age limits is whataboutery?

It’s the absolute essence of the debate, why should a 16 year old vote if they can’t legally be an MP?

They can’t get mortgages either, there are so many restrictions that it simply doesn’t make any logical sense. No one for it has yet to provide either a) a coherent reason to support it or b) accept age restrictions in all other areas should be reduced.

I would add politicians for it haven’t satisfied a) or b) either, their recent performance has been to push age of smoking, gambling and marriage all back from 16.

I'm actually agreeing with your (singular) line of thought. Let's give OAPs the boot. Voting should be for fully formed brains and not for the wrinklies!

 

[Blue3]

In truth a high percentage of youngsters are politically disconnected being able to vote might engage more, I know I was very political as a teenager while many of my peers were not.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It could be said that many on here that want to give 16-17 yo the vote could lobby for it, no one has lobbied for it, its just going to be imposed on the electorate, like VAR was in football, on deceit wrapped up in a tenuous argument that it will make things better.

I don’t recall a frenzy, I recall sharing experience, which turned out right. I never took my passport out on match day on any Europa League trip, in France i was never asked to produce it even by old Bill down by the Old Port another bit of advice I (and others) disregarded on match day. Again that decision proved right based on the experiences shared with me by others about the carnage in the designated square with its warm beer, piss and vomit topped off with a packed coach trip to the velodrome. Not for the group I was with we got the metro.

It’s ironic you raise that because as it happens I’m in Paris, we came out for a trip to Roland Garros. When I got the tix online the terms stated I would need to show passport on arrival at RG to obtain tix. Needless to say when we got there the pictures on our phones were sufficient. Similarly yesterday when we went for a spree in Gallaries Lafayette and Printemps in order to get our 12% discount (thank you Brexit) we didn’t need our passports just the photo with the reference.

My missus used to be like you and many of the drones on here, y’know, a bit of a citizen. These days she laughs at her naivety, proving that you can’t put an old head on young shoulders, or old shoulders that function as a 16-17 year old.

People simply accepting what the “authorities” advise are the most dangerous of all the constituencies in the electorate, and definitely should not get the vote. If we excluded them we wouldn’t get all the bullshit we had with Covid etc.

I am not challenging you over whether you are right or wrong regarding the need to carry your passport, more smirking at your teenage glee with how you feel you are sticking it up the French with your act of rebellion; most of us rolled our eyes and thought 'bless' and wondered if you were also planning to smuggle some bangers back home.

Enjoy Paris, a lovely city, and if you need any restaurant or wine bar tips I'm happy to advise.

 

[WATFORD zero]

When I got the tix online the terms stated I would need to show passport on arrival at RG to obtain tix. Needless to say when we got there the pictures on our phones were sufficient. Similarly yesterday when we went for a spree in Gallaries Lafayette and Printemps in order to get our 12% discount (thank you Brexit) we didn’t need our passports just the photo with the reference.

My missus used to be like you and many of the drones on here, y’know, a bit of a citizen. These days she laughs at her naivety, proving that you can’t put an old head on young shoulders, or old shoulders that function as a 16-17 year old.

People simply accepting what the “authorities” advise are the most dangerous of all the constituencies in the electorate, and definitely should not get the vote. If we excluded them we wouldn’t get all the bullshit we had with Covid etc.

Tickets, Passports, Brexit, Covid

 

[cunning fergus]

I am not challenging you over whether you are right or wrong regarding the need to carry your passport, more smirking at your teenage glee with how you feel you are sticking it up the French with your act of rebellion; most of us rolled our eyes and thought 'bless' and wondered if you were also planning to smuggle some bangers back home.

Enjoy Paris, a lovely city, and if you need any restaurant or wine bar tips I'm happy to advise.

I will let you do the thread archeology, however at no point was I sticking it up to the Frenchies. If I was sticking it up to anything it was the advice from the club and the predictable reaction to it by the damp mattress brigade on here, which includes you.

Not sure who it was, but I offered a bet on not being stopped without a passport, I had no doubt that given France was hosting the rugby World Cup that there wasn’t going to be a Vichy-esque approach to security for BHA fans in Marseille.

Like I say, the people that shouldn’t vote are the piss stinking useful idiots that can’t think for themselves, you know the sort, these days they think women can have a cock and balls and if they wear a dress can rightfully take a shit in the ladies.

Thanks for the offer, as always we’ve had a blast.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I will let you do the thread archeology, however at no point was I sticking it up to the Frenchies. If I was sticking it up to anything it was the advice from the club and the predictable reaction to it by the damp mattress brigade on here, which includes you.

Not sure who it was, but I offered a bet on not being stopped without a passport, I had no doubt that given France was hosting the rugby World Cup that there wasn’t going to be a Vichy-esque approach to security for BHA fans in Marseille.

Like I say, the people that shouldn’t vote are the piss stinking useful idiots that can’t think for themselves, you know the sort, these days they think women can have a cock and balls and if they wear a dress can rightfully take a shit in the ladies.

Thanks for the offer, as always we’ve had a blast.

We believe you . What's that line from Hamlet?

 

[Brovion]

I'm actually agreeing with your (singular) line of thought. Let's give OAPs the boot. Voting should be for fully formed brains and not for the wrinklies!

Oi! Not everyone over 65 is a senile old git who deserves to be disenfranchised y'know! *shakes fist*

In truth though there may be a case for extending the groups of people not entitled to vote to include the senile (along with prisoners and peers of the realm), but it's a slippery slope. Should you also exclude people who vote the way the voices in their head tell them to?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Like I say, the people that shouldn’t vote are the piss stinking useful idiots that can’t think for themselves, you know the sort, these days they think women can have a cock and balls and if they wear a dress can rightfully take a shit in the ladies.

Kemi Badenoch's office says thank you for your application as her speech writer, but on this occasion, you have been unsuccessful

 

[folkestonesgull]

I think it is a good idea. It's not just 16 year olds after all, it's all those between 16 and 18 who should be more politically engaged. As things stand someone who is 17 years 300 days + of age may not be able to vote for the first time until they are well over 22 with 5 year fixed term parliaments. How is that fair?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Has it

It could be said that many on here that want to give 16-17 yo the vote could lobby for it, no one has lobbied for it, its just going to be imposed on the electorate, like VAR was in football, on deceit wrapped up in a tenuous argument that it will make things better.

I don’t recall a frenzy, I recall sharing experience, which turned out right. I never took my passport out on match day on any Europa League trip, in France i was never asked to produce it even by old Bill down by the Old Port another bit of advice I (and others) disregarded on match day. Again that decision proved right based on the experiences shared with me by others about the carnage in the designated square with its warm beer, piss and vomit topped off with a packed coach trip to the velodrome. Not for the group I was with we got the metro.

It’s ironic you raise that because as it happens I’m in Paris, we came out for a trip to Roland Garros. When I got the tix online the terms stated I would need to show passport on arrival at RG to obtain tix. Needless to say when we got there the pictures on our phones were sufficient. Similarly yesterday when we went for a spree in Gallaries Lafayette and Printemps in order to get our 12% discount (thank you Brexit) we didn’t need our passports just the photo with the reference.

My missus used to be like you and many of the drones on here, y’know, a bit of a citizen. These days she laughs at her naivety, proving that you can’t put an old head on young shoulders, or old shoulders that function as a 16-17 year old.

People simply accepting what the “authorities” advise are the most dangerous of all the constituencies in the electorate, and definitely should not get the vote. If we excluded them we wouldn’t get all the bullshit we had with Covid etc.

has it ever occurred to you that there might be good reasons why there are different age limits for different things.

or that other people actually have the ability to think about issues and not just accept what the authorities impose?