[Politics] Voter Identification.

[Baker lite]

I didn’t have you down as such a quick learner, but I’ll keep my fingers crossed that you can make the grade for 2024!

Will it be multiple choice? I like them tests...I get a 1in 4 chance..


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[Herr Tubthumper]

Will it be multiple choice? I like them tests...I get a 1in 4 chance..


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Nope. Democracy cannot be based on chance.

 

[Baker lite]

Nope. Democracy cannot be based on chance.

I best getting studying..

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I best getting studying..

That’s the spirit!

 

[Lever]

How much of a problem is voter fraud in the UK currently?

Don't see the need for this, and will just potentially exclude a large number of people from voting.

Just another way of the Tories introducing national ID cards via the backdoor.

Don't forget you will probably also need to take a lateral flow covid test at the polling station doors and sit around for 30 minutes before only being allowed to vote if you get a negative test.

At least the Government aren't proposing to move over to online voting so that they can give out another round of contracts to their mates which will fail to deliver.

...and that is the point!

Clearly if voter fraud is an issue then it will need to be addressed; otherwise this seems to be the first signs of a government attempting to make it more difficult for certain groups of legitimate voters to turn out and vote at election time....

 

[Creaky]

Nope. Democracy cannot be based on chance.

One of the earliest forms of Democracy was based on just this - sortition

Sortition was a real form of democracy whereby appointing public officials was done by drawing lots and not by determining popularity via a vote.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It’s not correct. That’s some dodgy looking expat site; expat sites are usually the last place to go for information about a country imho.

If you read the official government site you will see no mention of ID, just your polling card.

https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/topics/c...estag-elections/bundestag-elections-node.html

Similar with EU elections although this site actually states explicitly there is no requirement in German law.

https://www.european-elections.eu/how-to-vote/germany

Wikipedia gives a clear simple explanation as well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws

However, the polling centre can ask for ID if they suspect anything, but it’s not law. If you want to, you can refuse.

From those links it seems that you do not have to show proof of identity but can show your ID card instead if required. Pretty much amounts to the same thing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

From those links it seems that you do not have to show proof of identity but can show your ID card instead if required. Pretty much amounts to the same thing.

No it isn’t the same thing in my opinion. Providing ID to help resolve an anomaly or something is not the same as having to show ID by law.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No it isn’t the same thing in my opinion. Providing ID to help resolve an anomaly or something is not the same as having to show ID by law.

We will have to agree to differ. This line suggests you don’t have much choice ; ‘ If you have forgotten your voter’s notification, you will have to show your identity card.’ Anyway, I think your system is better than both our current and prospective ones and clearly the EU doesn’t think it is a non existent problem. I am actually praising the EU so you should be pleased

 

[heathgate]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-voter-id-queen-speech-b1843891.html

So, no idea then?

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[heathgate]

So presumably you also think that votes are suppressed in countries like Germany where voter ID already exists ? Fair enough if you do by the way although I don’t agree.

....or Belgium where you have voter ID AND legislation to force you,.. yes force, how draconian.



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[Sid in the Sharknado]

My idea is to raise standards in the UK. Standards are pretty high here already. If it ain’t broke.......

I don't imagine the Bayern Munich board is graced with threads on such weighty topics as universal suffrage.

I'd like to think that if it is there are fewer people supporting taking it away, by stealth or design.

 

[GT49er]

....or Belgium where you have voter ID AND legislation to force you,.. yes force, how draconian.

Penny to a pound on here that's nothing to do with the benevolent EU, it's all down to the wicked Belgian government........

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I don't imagine the Bayern Munich board is graced with threads on such weighty topics as universal suffrage.

I'd like to think that if it is there are fewer people supporting taking it away, by stealth or design.

So if this topic were discussed on a Bayern Munich message board you would like to think they would have fewer people wanting Germany to move away from the UK system of not requiring some form of voter ID (which they don’t have) to the German system of requiring some form of voter ID (which they do have). Bit of a logical conundrum that one.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

So if this topic were discussed on a Bayern Munich message board you would like to think they would have fewer people wanting Germany to move away from the UK system of not requiring some form of voter ID (which they don’t have) to the German system of requiring some form of voter ID (which they do have). Bit of a logical conundrum that one.

No it isn't.

I am against photo ID being required for voting, except where there is clear evidence that the risk of abuse exceeds the risk of people being excluded (hence ID being required in Northern Ireland, where there has been good reason to be concerned about voter fraud).

I wouldn't be happy with the German system being introduced in Britain, but in any case it is apparently not the same as the systen proposed in this country. I would hope that not many people in Germany would support their requirements becoming more onerous.

I am curious as to a) whether you have any evidence or reason to think that the risk of vote fraud in the UK is greater than the risk of people being prevented from voting legitimately, and b) what you think a logical conundrum is?

I was also, as an aside, expressing my disagreement with the idea of testing people's intelligence in order to qualify to vote.

 

[The Clamp]

So, no idea then?

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Are you slow?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No it isn't.

I am against photo ID being required for voting, except where there is clear evidence that the risk of abuse exceeds the risk of people being excluded (hence ID being required in Northern Ireland, where there has been good reason to be concerned about voter fraud).

I wouldn't be happy with the German system being introduced in Britain, but in any case it is apparently not the same as the systen proposed in this country. I would hope that not many people in Germany would support their requirements becoming more onerous.

I am curious as to a) whether you have any evidence or reason to think that the risk of vote fraud in the UK is greater than the risk of people being prevented from voting legitimately, and b) what you think a logical conundrum is?

I was also, as an aside, expressing my disagreement with the idea of testing people's intelligence in order to qualify to vote.

We can certainly agree on your last sentence. I don’t think it is a serious suggestion by certain people but rather a bitter response to losing an election/vote. It never does their cause any good to be insulting the majority but they never seem to learn.
By logical conundrum I just meant your premise was wrong as the German system requires more ID than needed currently in the UK. That does make it a bit of a conundrum and difficult not to get tied up in the logic. I’ve just googled the phrase I used and I appear to have made it up to convey my meaning, sorry.
Lastly, I can equally ask you for proof that requiring voter ID would prevent people from voting legitimately. Photo ID is required in many countries around the world and there do not seem to be campaigns against their democratic credentials. If you are right then there should be proof of that causal link to voter suppression in countries like Germany.

 

[heathgate]

Are you slow?

Nope,... you have no idea what advantage they are supposed to be achieving by installing a Voter ID system, do you?... pasting web links are not your answer, that's someone else's skewed political stance....

Bearing in mind, virtually every nation across in continental Europe has ID card systems, some even use them to underpin compulsory voting,.. please tell me why this isn't appropriate for these islands?

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[The Clamp]

Nope,... you have no idea what advantage they are supposed to be achieving by installing a Voter ID system, do you?... pasting web links are not your answer, that's someone else's skewed political stance....

Bearing in mind, virtually every nation across in continental Europe has ID card systems, some even use them to underpin compulsory voting,.. please tell me why this isn't appropriate for these islands?

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It’s been explained by me and many others on here. I’m not sure why you are taking such an aggressive tone. I don’t care for your attitude but I’m happy to explain.

I am not against ID cards. I think they would be a positive if they are universally attainable. They work well in other countries and I think they would work well here.


If Tory’s want to introduce national ID cards, they have my support

If, as many suspect. they want to introduce compulsory voter ID; showing a passport or driving license at the polling station? Then no, I am dead against that because it potentially disenfranchises groups of the electorate such as disabled people, poorer people and people of ethnic backgrounds who statistically are less likely to have these form of identification. These are groups less likely to vote Tory. Which is an advantage to the Tory’s. Following so far?


We don’t have a voter fraud problem in this country. Simple as that. It is a non existent problem.

And while other countries have ID systems in place, they are only required to produce ID at a polling station if they don it have their polling card. So, not what you claim at all. And I’ve explained that one in here before, too.

I’ve explained all this several times on this thread but you are clearly too angry to concentrate. Work on your manners, you were clearly dragged up.

 

[The Clamp]

From those links it seems that you do not have to show proof of identity but can show your ID card instead if required. Pretty much amounts to the same thing.

As I explained before, not the same thing at all.