[Politics] Voter Identification.

[Neville's Breakfast]

Nonsense. That's been going on for years and has NOTHING to do with voter fraud.

My uncle used to allow the Lib Dems to drive him to the polling station for years on a promise he would vote for them, which he never did.

I agree it’s not fraud. I would be a little concerned though about more vulnerable people than your uncle being driven to polling stations by activists. Having said that you can’t legislate against people getting lifts.

 

[Baker lite]

This is not true.

Are people that are not as bright as you allowed to vote in Germany?


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[tinycowboy]

So presumably you also think that votes are suppressed in countries like Germany where voter ID already exists ? Fair enough if you do by the way although I don’t agree.

It's a fair enough question. I lived in Germany for a while and I wouldn't associate Germany with voter suppression. It is compulsory to have an ID card (of some kind) and this costs money, so I don't really agree with that as I don't like regressive taxation, which this effectively is. I don't think they're massively expensive. However, this requirement to possess an identity card of some kind is separate from the requirement to produce ID when voting, so the two can't really be conflated.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I'm sure someone has already made this point but if it's voter suppression, surely it will impact the Tories more than Labour if Hartlepool is anything to go by?

 

[severnside gull]

Brexit isn’t mine and it isn’t about the things you mention. I don’t say we should slavishly follow Europe but I do agree with many structures they have. Not wanting to be in the EU doesn’t mean rejection of everything European.I just think it odd that you condemn the UK but not Europe so you have rather bitterly twisted things around. Others have made good points about a common sense approach being to fully introduce national ID cards like on the continent. Do you agree or are you just opposed to anything a Tory Government does, in which case you don’t have much of an argument.

I disagree with ID cards because they are designed to disenfranchise a whole subset of society based on economic and educational achievement which the current government’s think tanks (probably rightly) associate with a likelihood of supporting parties other than theirs.
That, in any terms, is fascism.
What other countries and cultures do is of no relevance whatsoever other than to highlight the hypocrisy of those supporting the proposal.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I disagree with ID cards because they are designed to disenfranchise a whole subset of society based on economic and educational achievement which the current government’s think tanks (probably rightly) associate with a likelihood of supporting parties other than theirs.
That, in any terms, is fascism.
What other countries and cultures do is of no relevance whatsoever other than to highlight the hypocrisy of those supporting the proposal.

Well, now I am confused ! Many Labour supporters (possibly including yourself) have said that Tory supporters are thick. If it turns out that those ‘lacking educational achievement’ are actually Labour supporters then we might as well delete the Hartlepool by election thread for a start.

 

[beorhthelm]

I disagree with ID cards because they are designed to disenfranchise a whole subset of society based on economic and educational achievement which the current government’s think tanks (probably rightly) associate with a likelihood of supporting parties other than theirs.
That, in any terms, is fascism.
What other countries and cultures do is of no relevance whatsoever other than to highlight the hypocrisy of those supporting the proposal.

relevance is showing its not an unusual thing. your implying all those countries must be fascist.

we could climb down from the hyperbole. an ID card is designed to show a persons ID, nothing more. how that is used within a society could be positive or negative. there's a large cohort of people who have effectively no recognition of their citizen or residence status, with associated problems, which would be solved by an ID process.

 

[Creaky]

According to the DVLA almost a million driving licences are lost or stolen each year.

On that basis I’m not sure how much use some form of ID card would be in stopping voter fraud, even if it did exist in any significant form.

Lost/stolen driving licences are often used directly or indirectly in identity theft - an ID card holding even more information is potentially an even greater opportunity for criminals.

 

[Creaky]

relevance is showing its not an unusual thing. your implying all those countries must be fascist.

we could climb down from the hyperbole. an ID card is designed to show a persons ID, nothing more. how that is used within a society could be positive or negative. there's a large cohort of people who have effectively no recognition of their citizen or residence status, with associated problems, which would be solved by an ID process.

So why then biometric information, mobile phone numbers as well as use and location of use, logged by various countries that do have compulsory schemes? What next, genetic profiles so insurance companies can load premiums for various factors? How much do you think these companies would be willing to pay for that information?

Easy to include race and religion in the information.

It’s not what ID cards are used for presently or indeed what the intentions for the future are but, as technology, advances, what they may be used for in the future. We already have contactless bank cards which can be read without any physical contact, how long before ID cards could be “improved” to do something similar, without the holders knowledge, for all sorts of purposes?

We just don’t know what the future will bring, encouraging the use of systems that can make monitoring individuals easier on the pretext it will prevent fraud is IMO a dangerous path to tread.

 

[driller]

 

[clapham_gull]

Nothing like a bit of fake news Driller to back up a non argument. It's fake account already suspended by twitter.

 

[A1X]

Even if it wasn't fake news from a parody account I still don't see why it would be an issue. It'd be akin to saying "why do I have to pay to go to Brighton games when I can use the beach for free?".

 

[Baker lite]

Oh I say..
https://twitter.com/susaneacock/status/1392597287801659393?s=21


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[severnside gull]

Or exaggerated.
This government’s ongoing “Windrush” record and Patel’s open hostility indicate their use is more likely to be aggressive than supportive

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I posted this link in post 384

https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/germany/moving/voting

Is it wrong ?

It’s not correct. That’s some dodgy looking expat site; expat sites are usually the last place to go for information about a country imho.

If you read the official government site you will see no mention of ID, just your polling card.

https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/topics/c...estag-elections/bundestag-elections-node.html

Similar with EU elections although this site actually states explicitly there is no requirement in German law.

https://www.european-elections.eu/how-to-vote/germany

Wikipedia gives a clear simple explanation as well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws

However, the polling centre can ask for ID if they suspect anything, but it’s not law. If you want to, you can refuse.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Are people that are not as bright as you allowed to vote in Germany?


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My idea is to raise standards in the UK. Standards are pretty high here already. If it ain’t broke.......

 

[Baker lite]

My idea is to raise standards in the UK. Standards are pretty high here already. If it ain’t broke.......

What would your criteria be in the UK? Would I have had to go to University to be able to vote? Would you allow kids who went to comprehensive schools a vote? I’m not very good at sums,would that go against me? I can add up,take away multiply and divide etc. I’d be gutted if I could not go and spoil my paper every 4 or 5 years.


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[Herr Tubthumper]

What would your criteria be in the UK? Would I have had to go to University to be able to vote? Would you allow kids who went to comprehensive schools a vote? I’m not very good at sums,would that go against me? I can add up,take away multiply and divide etc. I’d be gutted if I could not go and spoil my paper every 4 or 5 years.


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It will be an examination. Everyone will have access to the exam, including kids who went to a comp. No one will be precluded.

Numeracy will be tested so you might struggle; I advise starting your revision asap to avoid disappointment.

Good luck!

 

[Baker lite]

It will be an examination. Everyone will have access to the exam, including kids who went to a comp. No one will be precluded.

Numeracy will be tested so you might struggle; I advise starting your revision asap to avoid disappointment.

Good luck!

Fingers crossed [emoji1695] if I start swatting up now I should be ok to spoil my paper in 2024[emoji1303]


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[Herr Tubthumper]

Fingers crossed [emoji1695] if I start swatting up now I should be ok to spoil my paper in 2024[emoji1303]


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I didn’t have you down as such a quick learner, but I’ll keep my fingers crossed that you can make the grade for 2024!