Vote ukip

[hart's shirt]

Over to Banksy...

I don't think it's an original. It looks like a poorly photoshopped version of Banksy's Love Sick.

Whoever's done it has forgotten to remove some of the hearts at the bottom.

 

[Yoda]

Well, sorry to disappoint, but I shall not be voting UKIP due to the complete lack of effort from the person standing in my constituency.

The flyer was nice and shiny enough, but it tells me the grand total of jack shit what their plans are for my area. To top it off, he could be bothered to deliver them by hand like the other two I have received so far. Just posted them and got Royal Mail to deliver them all (free post).

The Lib Dem's had the decency to deliver themselves and the Green candidate even took the time to ring the door bell to ask me questions etc. Both also outlined what manifesto for the constituency.

Have yet to see/hear anything from Labour or the Tories.

 

[daveinprague]

UKIP voters in Worthing West will be voting for a genius.

 

[daveinprague]

I'm fairly certain Chuka Umanna (purple tie) has not defected to UKIP and will continue to sit as the Labour MP for Streatham after the General Election.

No, he hasnt, he is labour., The Shadow Business Secretary in fact. Maybe UKIP supporters think tie colour is crucial to the election.
Quite looking forward to the election. Will be surprised if the wankers retain both the seats they have.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

No, he hasnt, he is labour., The Shadow Business Secretary in fact. Maybe UKIP supporters think tie colour is crucial to the election.
Quite looking forward to the election. Will be surprised if the wankers retain both the seats they have.

Who cares. I hope UKIP prove people wrong. They have done bloody well against the constant attacks.
There is shit about the Green party in the Daily Mail if you would like to post that too.

 

[daveinprague]

No, ill leave that to UKIP people Bashlsdir. Im quite happy at pointing, and laughing at UKIP thanks.
They are under 'constant' attacks for good reasons mate. They keep opening their mouths. You know that. I know that. The vast majority of the electorate know that.

 

[Bold Seagull]

"White Britons"??
And another UKIP candidate recently on Question Time.

Are you really going to pretend this never happened and just carry on as if posting a picture of Labour's shadow business secretary as a UKIP candidate just because he is black, is just a bit of a faux pas? Like all those other UKIP candidates who occasionally let their ridiculous views slip through the PR net...

 

[BigGully]

I am considering voting UKIP, its tends to tick many of my boxes.

Immigration has inevitable financial and cultural consequences, something that the left seem unable to grasp whilst the Tories absolutely try to ignore it.

Europe remains a failing socialist political experiment and corrupt to the core, we should return to it being a trading block which ultimately offers greater stability and relationships, the current model has failed on both counts, with a greater likelyhood of civil unrest throughout the region.

If we left Europe then it would be up to our neighbours to choose whether to trade with one of the worlds richest countries or not, if we manufacture 'widgets' and offer world class services at a competitive price then why wouldnt they, similarly I am sure they would wish to have access to a market worth ££ billions and 60+ million people, that what trade is all about ?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

No, ill leave that to UKIP people Bashlsdir. Im quite happy at pointing, and laughing at UKIP thanks.
They are under 'constant' attacks for good reasons mate. They keep opening their mouths. You know that. I know that. The vast majority of the electorate know that.

Nigel Farage on Absolute Radio, seems perfectly normal to me.

 

[El Presidente]

If we left Europe then it would be up to our neighbours to choose whether to trade with one of the worlds richest countries or not, if we manufacture 'widgets' and offer world class services at a competitive price then why wouldnt they, similarly I am sure they would wish to have access to a market worth ££ billions and 60+ million people, that what trade is all about ?

The problem is we don't manufacture very much, and we consume a lot.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Europe is fine....as a trading partner...
We pay £55m a day to be in the 'club',we gave up our fishing grounds. We import more from the EU than we export to them...so far loss,loss,loss.
We do not control our borders.We have the ECHR telling our elected Judges how to pass the sentence. European countries outside the EU are doing fine.
If you think an EU offical is not doing his job...you cannot vote him/her out. We are a democracy....there is nothing democractic about the EU...haven't ratified their accounts in 13 years...full of neptoism...ie.Kinnock family.
They move their parliament from Brussels to Strasburg every year and back again,costing millions. What's to like ?
In the last 'challenger' debate,only one man spoke the truth as it is,others did not mention the 'racist immigration' word. Tell it as it is...the audience as ever booed and heckled Nigel...as lefties do if you don't agree with them.(Believe me,I was an Union man for 12 years,but only because if you weren't you didn't get a job).
If you want to go back to the days when Unions ruled this country and mass strikes,where manufacturing was at it's lowest and goods were sub standard,where exports will drop, then you must vote Labour,just be careful what you wish for.
Most of the Tory hatred comes because people think 'Oh! They are posh' it's about time p eople got to see sense,it is some of the' working class' who spite bile like Rich Tory scum...I have yet to hear a rich person say,Working class scum' Politics of envy. You will always have someone at the top earning more than you,get used to it...tax the rich too much and they will take their factories and jobs overseas (The top 1% of the rich pay 27% of tax revenue) which will result more unemployment,higher benefit pay outs.Put your country first...not yourself..country improves then so will your lifestyle.

 

[daveinprague]

Business men want the EU...so its pretty much a given.

 

[daveinprague]

Nigel Farage on Absolute Radio, seems perfectly normal to me.

Yeah, I watched his normal self on the debate the other night virtually accusing everybody else of being left wing. He seemed on the edge of hysteria. He is a clown. Feel free to vote for his party. Even though I believe he will step down in a few weeks time.
Who you got to step into this giants shoes?

 

[El Presidente]

. We import more from the EU than we export to them

Why do you think that is the case?

 

[BigGully]

The problem is we don't manufacture very much, and we consume a lot.

That may well be the case thats why I mentioned services, but how does Europe effect that.

If we consume alot then Europe would want to continue free trade with us and therefore vice versa, or are you expecting an economic downturn and hope that some other succeeding European country to bail us out.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Mustafa seems to be confusing what he hopes is the case (that 'we left wing majority' will see off UKIP) and reality. It seems clear to me that Farage is on to a complete winner by simplifying all the things that annoy us into a seductive mantra (referendum, leave Europe, regain control, the rest will fix itself). Everyone can see that 'Europe' (the empire of the commissions and the European parliament) is flabby, unaccountable, and riven by nation-based factions. The reality is that UKIP, provided they don't machine gun themselves in the foot, will do well. There is always a risk one of their leaders will be caught on camera sneering at p***s, n*******, P****, etc, but it will take a relentless stream of gaffs to undermine their credibility with those who wish to vote for them now. Something else not widely recognised is that for some voting UKIP will be a guilty pleasure, a bit of risk taking fun, cocking a snook etc.

No, Mustafa. I am not fooled by UKIP, and will vote the way I always do, but I don't imagine for a moment that I am part of a left wing majority. Don't be complacent. The opponents of UKIP have so far failed to come up with anything that remotely resembles a coherent argument against them. There is one, but nobody has mentioned it. It goes thus:

After the last war, folk recognised that when one European nation (let's face it, the Germans) get a bit above themselves and start pinching the neighbour's land and mistreating its minorities (back then it was the Jews - remember them?), and we have an inevitable war (they used to be inevitable and regular) then it makes no sense to grind the faces of the vanquished because they will only grow stronger and come back even more determined next time (vide: WWI, reparations, rise of Hitler, WWII). Better to make Europe stable by 'coming together'. And at the time we had the Red Menace (a real one - Joe Stalin) breathing at us from points east. So 'Europe' was born. Arguably it has helped keep the peace - and ensure that only peace is on the horizon, within the Euro tent - forever after. On the downside it has ballooned into a mess with the commissions and the interference in sovereign issues. That said, its only the Brits that really think that. The rest of 'Europe' are pretty relaxed about it all. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean the Brits are wrong. Despite being in favour of 'Europe' (for the reasons outlined) it seems obvious to me that when a system fails Tony Benn's rules of democrasy then it has to be fixed (this includes the ability to vote out the rulers - we cannot do that with the commisioners).

So the rise of UKIP mirrors repeated governments' failure to tackle the root problems of Europe - failure to suppress the growth of commission power, and failure to insist on transparency. But when you consider that Thatcher was completely against transparency (remember her fave Lord Chief Justice Denning and his opposition to Enquiries?) and only interested in 'gettting back' our 'unfair contribution', while Labour wanted no scrutiny or criticism of 'Europe' largely to distinguish themselves from 'madame non', you can appreciate that we have sat back and done nothing useful to bring a bit of 'British Common Sense' to the party. Our mainstream parties have just used European issues to further their own electoral position, with no actual reflection or engagement, or even proper analysis of 'Europe'. We have sat back and let UKIP walk into the party, and now our mainstream parties (who have disengaged from being proactive over 'European' issues) have no way of laying a single punch on their imperative. A disgrace, actually. Shame on Labour, Liberals and the Conservatives.

So it is the fault of the maistream politics that UKIP has risen. This is exactly the same as our (dis)engagement with UEFA and FIFA. Apparently the FA never bothered to send anyone to meetings and treated our European football authority in particular with disdain. The cosnequence is we have no influence, meaning that FIFA is run by a lunatic, and only lunatics have a chance to be elected as UEFA president (Platini etc - the pillock). To me this means that if you disengage then you lose influence. Just like 'Europe'. in football some of us think it would be better if we not try to go to the world cup, etc . . . the football equivalent of the UKIP ideal. A good idea? Sadly it is a bit late now to flounce off. UKIP are the political equivalent of the football founcers, who would rather us just have 'home championships' every spring and to hell with the rest of the buggers.

The one way to oppose UKIP is to challenge their bogus vision of a UK out of Europe, trading freely again with the old empire (Australia, NZ, SA). Yes it works for Switzerlan and Sweden to be semi detached from Europe, but they have their reasons, and in the case of Sweden, who cares? It is quite different for UK to go marching off. We are supposed to be one of the big 3 in Europe (along with France and Germany). In what way does it serve our interests to behave more like Greece or Italy, threatening to disengage? The French and Germans think we are mad and destructive to threaten to 'leave' and, unlike with Switzerland, they will punish us if we do. OK, so having to spend 2 hours going through customs when taking the chunnel of ferry to France, or the Freddy Laker to Faro, like we do when we travel to the US or Israel, might be a small price to pay for our 'freedom'. But what worries me is that like some have said on here, 'Europe' will probably collapse in 20 years. Then, who knows? War? I'd rather be inside the tent where I have some influence than out.

Actually, after all that, the arguments in favour of staying 'in' seem rather weak. Lol! Someone bail me out with some reasoned logic or I might just vote UKIP after all.

I appreciate your analysis as someone who is well aware of the origins of the Common market and, going back before that, the Iron and Steel trades Confederation or whatever it was called. The vision of the people from France and Germany who got together immediately post war was something to be admired.

I have been a convinced European for over 40 years, and would rather be inside trying to get it sorted out - If we were to show willing in this respect, I think the rest of Europe would take is very seriously.

Incidentally, the Conservative party apparently commissioned some research from various Government departments in recent times to identify which powers it should begin to think about repatriating from the EU. The reason nothing has been heard about this is because they couldn't find any. There have been articles about this in the Guardian and the Observer over the last couple of weeks, but nothing, I think in any of the other newspapers - I use the term loosely. To me, that just signifies that the whole raison d'etre of UKIP is based on a false premise, or rather a series of false premises.

 

[BigGully]

Business men want the EU...so its pretty much a given.

Business men quite like the status quo if they are currently succeeding, I cannot see a reason why imminent failure awaits if we withdrew, but ultimately just because a basket of businesses prefer we stay in whilst the British taxpayer pays billions out without a referendum or reasonable debate then it shouldnt invalidate a view that we should leave it.

 

[daveinprague]

Business men quite like the status quo if they are currently succeeding, I cannot see a reason why imminent failure awaits if we withdrew, but ultimately just because a basket of businesses prefer we stay in whilst the British taxpayer pays billions out without a referendum or reasonable debate then it shouldnt invalidate a view that we should leave it.

Im just being realistic mate. Im pretty sure the Chamber of Commerce would have looked into it. If businessmen want the UK to stay in the EU, im pretty sure, thats where it will stay.

 

[El Presidente]

That may well be the case thats why I mentioned services, but how does Europe effect that.

If we consume alot then Europe would want to continue free trade with us and therefore vice versa, or are you expecting an economic downturn and hope that some other succeeding European country to bail us out.

I suspect financial services will be relatively unaffected, unless UKIP stops international bankers working in London. If it tries to do that there would be a significant economic cost.

All I see in my industry (Higher Education) is that the policies introduced by the present Conservative administration mean that it is harder to recruit international students. Given that they pay on average £15,000 a year to come here, as well as spending money in the local economy. It's sheer lunacy in my view, and is costing the economy, and one of our most successful industries, a huge amount of money.

UKIP's policies will make the matter worse, as there points based system will allow a lot of people into the country, yet create industry specific employment shortages. Their education policies are worse than that of Michael Gove, and will not prepare children for the demands of the workplace in the twenty first century.

Immigration is an issue. Migrants such as the Roma families, with poor education and large numbers of children that create ghettoes in places such as Sheffield should be addressed. But they are relatively few and far between, migrant unemployment rates overall are lower than those who were born here. However there are equal issues with the indigenous disconnected white poor of the UK. A cycle of unemployment, lack of ambition or education, means that a sector of society is institutionally unemployable.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Paul Drayson donated £100,000 to Labour and subsequently his company was awarded a £32million contract to supply a smallpox vaccine.

The rumours round my workplace (his company) were he was also on the committee (possibly head of) that chose which company got the contract.