I consider myself an "Ordinary working British Person " are you ??
Count me in. Which is why i am appalled at the way the Labour party treated the ""Ordinary working British Person " . "Working" class party.....do me a favour.
I consider myself an "Ordinary working British Person " are you ??
Strange then, that so many millions of them/us consistantly vote tory.I think if we scrutinised the average person's political views in this country, we would find that a vast majority of people are left-wing -
Count me in. Which is why i am appalled at the way the Labour party treated the ""Ordinary working British Person " . "Working" class party.....do me a favour.
I am an ordinary working man who works in the high end building sector. I work for mainly the rich people who spend money on my products for their expensive houses. If labour, snp, greens get any sniff of power the high middle classes and Rich people will be sucked dry of cash by jealous lefty types. This rich bashing is nonsense. Money trickles down to me and thousands of other workers in this sector. The mass immigration has caused problems for me but I am still going strong. This is why I am torn between tory and ukip. There is an army of working classes who will be affected by increased tax for the rich and mansion taxes. These working classes want to work and not receive top up tax credits. Let us earn!!.... On a side note my wife works for the NHS and wants Labour. Tough few weeks in my houseOnly if they have a very limited understanding of politics, or they are rather well off.
An ordinary working British person should support greater equality - improved wages, more spending power, better working conditions, more public money to the NHS - a healthier, fairer and more progressive society to which to bring up their children. These are all things that UKIP do NOT represent.
Strange then, that so many millions of them/us consistantly vote tory.
Mustafa seems to be confusing what he hopes is the case (that 'we left wing majority' will see off UKIP) and reality. It seems clear to me that Farage is on to a complete winner by simplifying all the things that annoy us into a seductive mantra (referendum, leave Europe, regain control, the rest will fix itself). Everyone can see that 'Europe' (the empire of the commissions and the European parliament) is flabby, unaccountable, and riven by nation-based factions. The reality is that UKIP, provided they don't machine gun themselves in the foot, will do well. There is always a risk one of their leaders will be caught on camera sneering at p***s, n*******, P****, etc, but it will take a relentless stream of gaffs to undermine their credibility with those who wish to vote for them now. Something else not widely recognised is that for some voting UKIP will be a guilty pleasure, a bit of risk taking fun, cocking a snook etc.
No, Mustafa. I am not fooled by UKIP, and will vote the way I always do, but I don't imagine for a moment that I am part of a left wing majority. Don't be complacent. The opponents of UKIP have so far failed to come up with anything that remotely resembles a coherent argument against them. There is one, but nobody has mentioned it. It goes thus:
After the last war, folk recognised that when one European nation (let's face it, the Germans) get a bit above themselves and start pinching the neighbour's land and mistreating its minorities (back then it was the Jews - remember them?), and we have an inevitable war (they used to be inevitable and regular) then it makes no sense to grind the faces of the vanquished because they will only grow stronger and come back even more determined next time (vide: WWI, reparations, rise of Hitler, WWII). Better to make Europe stable by 'coming together'. And at the time we had the Red Menace (a real one - Joe Stalin) breathing at us from points east. So 'Europe' was born. Arguably it has helped keep the peace - and ensure that only peace is on the horizon, within the Euro tent - forever after. On the downside it has ballooned into a mess with the commissions and the interference in sovereign issues. That said, its only the Brits that really think that. The rest of 'Europe' are pretty relaxed about it all. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean the Brits are wrong. Despite being in favour of 'Europe' (for the reasons outlined) it seems obvious to me that when a system fails Tony Benn's rules of democrasy then it has to be fixed (this includes the ability to vote out the rulers - we cannot do that with the commisioners).
So the rise of UKIP mirrors repeated governments' failure to tackle the root problems of Europe - failure to suppress the growth of commission power, and failure to insist on transparency. But when you consider that Thatcher was completely against transparency (remember her fave Lord Chief Justice Denning and his opposition to Enquiries?) and only interested in 'gettting back' our 'unfair contribution', while Labour wanted no scrutiny or criticism of 'Europe' largely to distinguish themselves from 'madame non', you can appreciate that we have sat back and done nothing useful to bring a bit of 'British Common Sense' to the party. Our mainstream parties have just used European issues to further their own electoral position, with no actual reflection or engagement, or even proper analysis of 'Europe'. We have sat back and let UKIP walk into the party, and now our mainstream parties (who have disengaged from being proactive over 'European' issues) have no way of laying a single punch on their imperative. A disgrace, actually. Shame on Labour, Liberals and the Conservatives.
So it is the fault of the maistream politics that UKIP has risen. This is exactly the same as our (dis)engagement with UEFA and FIFA. Apparently the FA never bothered to send anyone to meetings and treated our European football authority in particular with disdain. The cosnequence is we have no influence, meaning that FIFA is run by a lunatic, and only lunatics have a chance to be elected as UEFA president (Platini etc - the pillock). To me this means that if you disengage then you lose influence. Just like 'Europe'. in football some of us think it would be better if we not try to go to the world cup, etc . . . the football equivalent of the UKIP ideal. A good idea? Sadly it is a bit late now to flounce off. UKIP are the political equivalent of the football founcers, who would rather us just have 'home championships' every spring and to hell with the rest of the buggers.
The one way to oppose UKIP is to challenge their bogus vision of a UK out of Europe, trading freely again with the old empire (Australia, NZ, SA). Yes it works for Switzerlan and Sweden to be semi detached from Europe, but they have their reasons, and in the case of Sweden, who cares? It is quite different for UK to go marching off. We are supposed to be one of the big 3 in Europe (along with France and Germany). In what way does it serve our interests to behave more like Greece or Italy, threatening to disengage? The French and Germans think we are mad and destructive to threaten to 'leave' and, unlike with Switzerland, they will punish us if we do. OK, so having to spend 2 hours going through customs when taking the chunnel of ferry to France, or the Freddy Laker to Faro, like we do when we travel to the US or Israel, might be a small price to pay for our 'freedom'. But what worries me is that like some have said on here, 'Europe' will probably collapse in 20 years. Then, who knows? War? I'd rather be inside the tent where I have some influence than out.
Actually, after all that, the arguments in favour of staying 'in' seem rather weak. Lol! Someone bail me out with some reasoned logic or I might just vote UKIP after all.
Mustafa seems to be confusing what he hopes is the case (that 'we left wing majority' will see off UKIP) and reality. It seems clear to me that Farage is on to a complete winner by simplifying all the things that annoy us into a seductive mantra (referendum, leave Europe, regain control, the rest will fix itself). Everyone can see that 'Europe' (the empire of the commissions and the European parliament) is flabby, unaccountable, and riven by nation-based factions. The reality is that UKIP, provided they don't machine gun themselves in the foot, will do well. There is always a risk one of their leaders will be caught on camera sneering at p***s, n*******, P****, etc, but it will take a relentless stream of gaffs to undermine their credibility with those who wish to vote for them now. Something else not widely recognised is that for some voting UKIP will be a guilty pleasure, a bit of risk taking fun, cocking a snook etc.
No, Mustafa. I am not fooled by UKIP, and will vote the way I always do, but I don't imagine for a moment that I am part of a left wing majority. Don't be complacent. The opponents of UKIP have so far failed to come up with anything that remotely resembles a coherent argument against them. There is one, but nobody has mentioned it. It goes thus:
After the last war, folk recognised that when one European nation (let's face it, the Germans) get a bit above themselves and start pinching the neighbour's land and mistreating its minorities (back then it was the Jews - remember them?), and we have an inevitable war (they used to be inevitable and regular) then it makes no sense to grind the faces of the vanquished because they will only grow stronger and come back even more determined next time (vide: WWI, reparations, rise of Hitler, WWII). Better to make Europe stable by 'coming together'. And at the time we had the Red Menace (a real one - Joe Stalin) breathing at us from points east. So 'Europe' was born. Arguably it has helped keep the peace - and ensure that only peace is on the horizon, within the Euro tent - forever after. On the downside it has ballooned into a mess with the commissions and the interference in sovereign issues. That said, its only the Brits that really think that. The rest of 'Europe' are pretty relaxed about it all. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean the Brits are wrong. Despite being in favour of 'Europe' (for the reasons outlined) it seems obvious to me that when a system fails Tony Benn's rules of democrasy then it has to be fixed (this includes the ability to vote out the rulers - we cannot do that with the commisioners).
So the rise of UKIP mirrors repeated governments' failure to tackle the root problems of Europe - failure to suppress the growth of commission power, and failure to insist on transparency. But when you consider that Thatcher was completely against transparency (remember her fave Lord Chief Justice Denning and his opposition to Enquiries?) and only interested in 'gettting back' our 'unfair contribution', while Labour wanted no scrutiny or criticism of 'Europe' largely to distinguish themselves from 'madame non', you can appreciate that we have sat back and done nothing useful to bring a bit of 'British Common Sense' to the party. Our mainstream parties have just used European issues to further their own electoral position, with no actual reflection or engagement, or even proper analysis of 'Europe'. We have sat back and let UKIP walk into the party, and now our mainstream parties (who have disengaged from being proactive over 'European' issues) have no way of laying a single punch on their imperative. A disgrace, actually. Shame on Labour, Liberals and the Conservatives.
So it is the fault of the maistream politics that UKIP has risen. This is exactly the same as our (dis)engagement with UEFA and FIFA. Apparently the FA never bothered to send anyone to meetings and treated our European football authority in particular with disdain. The cosnequence is we have no influence, meaning that FIFA is run by a lunatic, and only lunatics have a chance to be elected as UEFA president (Platini etc - the pillock). To me this means that if you disengage then you lose influence. Just like 'Europe'. in football some of us think it would be better if we not try to go to the world cup, etc . . . the football equivalent of the UKIP ideal. A good idea? Sadly it is a bit late now to flounce off. UKIP are the political equivalent of the football founcers, who would rather us just have 'home championships' every spring and to hell with the rest of the buggers.
The one way to oppose UKIP is to challenge their bogus vision of a UK out of Europe, trading freely again with the old empire (Australia, NZ, SA). Yes it works for Switzerlan and Sweden to be semi detached from Europe, but they have their reasons, and in the case of Sweden, who cares? It is quite different for UK to go marching off. We are supposed to be one of the big 3 in Europe (along with France and Germany). In what way does it serve our interests to behave more like Greece or Italy, threatening to disengage? The French and Germans think we are mad and destructive to threaten to 'leave' and, unlike with Switzerland, they will punish us if we do. OK, so having to spend 2 hours going through customs when taking the chunnel of ferry to France, or the Freddy Laker to Faro, like we do when we travel to the US or Israel, might be a small price to pay for our 'freedom'. But what worries me is that like some have said on here, 'Europe' will probably collapse in 20 years. Then, who knows? War? I'd rather be inside the tent where I have some influence than out.
Actually, after all that, the arguments in favour of staying 'in' seem rather weak. Lol! Someone bail me out with some reasoned logic or I might just vote UKIP after all.
Great post, but Europe will never get on. Vested interests, by Germany, France, Greece and the UK will make sure that Europe will just be our favourite holiday destination. We are so different and that is the beauty of it. A strong Germany has, and will always be a threat. They are flexing their muscles already by calling back hundreds of warplanes from the scrappy " just in case russia gets naughty" it may not be the same as hitlers " expanding the commercial fleet method" but is just the same. A pen and paper war is already going on in Berlin as they take control over the rest of Europe in trade and puppet commissioners. The tory have no intention of pulling out and Ukip is the only option for some. The ukip "repatriation" of money through fiddling their commission expenses is a policy which I support. The Federal state is sucking us dry.Mustafa seems to be confusing what he hopes is the case (that 'we left wing majority' will see off UKIP) and reality. It seems clear to me that Farage is on to a complete winner by simplifying all the things that annoy us into a seductive mantra (referendum, leave Europe, regain control, the rest will fix itself). Everyone can see that 'Europe' (the empire of the commissions and the European parliament) is flabby, unaccountable, and riven by nation-based factions. The reality is that UKIP, provided they don't machine gun themselves in the foot, will do well. There is always a risk one of their leaders will be caught on camera sneering at p***s, n*******, P****, etc, but it will take a relentless stream of gaffs to undermine their credibility with those who wish to vote for them now. Something else not widely recognised is that for some voting UKIP will be a guilty pleasure, a bit of risk taking fun, cocking a snook etc.
No, Mustafa. I am not fooled by UKIP, and will vote the way I always do, but I don't imagine for a moment that I am part of a left wing majority. Don't be complacent. The opponents of UKIP have so far failed to come up with anything that remotely resembles a coherent argument against them. There is one, but nobody has mentioned it. It goes thus:
After the last war, folk recognised that when one European nation (let's face it, the Germans) get a bit above themselves and start pinching the neighbour's land and mistreating its minorities (back then it was the Jews - remember them?), and we have an inevitable war (they used to be inevitable and regular) then it makes no sense to grind the faces of the vanquished because they will only grow stronger and come back even more determined next time (vide: WWI, reparations, rise of Hitler, WWII). Better to make Europe stable by 'coming together'. And at the time we had the Red Menace (a real one - Joe Stalin) breathing at us from points east. So 'Europe' was born. Arguably it has helped keep the peace - and ensure that only peace is on the horizon, within the Euro tent - forever after. On the downside it has ballooned into a mess with the commissions and the interference in sovereign issues. That said, its only the Brits that really think that. The rest of 'Europe' are pretty relaxed about it all. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean the Brits are wrong. Despite being in favour of 'Europe' (for the reasons outlined) it seems obvious to me that when a system fails Tony Benn's rules of democrasy then it has to be fixed (this includes the ability to vote out the rulers - we cannot do that with the commisioners).
So the rise of UKIP mirrors repeated governments' failure to tackle the root problems of Europe - failure to suppress the growth of commission power, and failure to insist on transparency. But when you consider that Thatcher was completely against transparency (remember her fave Lord Chief Justice Denning and his opposition to Enquiries?) and only interested in 'gettting back' our 'unfair contribution', while Labour wanted no scrutiny or criticism of 'Europe' largely to distinguish themselves from 'madame non', you can appreciate that we have sat back and done nothing useful to bring a bit of 'British Common Sense' to the party. Our mainstream parties have just used European issues to further their own electoral position, with no actual reflection or engagement, or even proper analysis of 'Europe'. We have sat back and let UKIP walk into the party, and now our mainstream parties (who have disengaged from being proactive over 'European' issues) have no way of laying a single punch on their imperative. A disgrace, actually. Shame on Labour, Liberals and the Conservatives.
So it is the fault of the maistream politics that UKIP has risen. This is exactly the same as our (dis)engagement with UEFA and FIFA. Apparently the FA never bothered to send anyone to meetings and treated our European football authority in particular with disdain. The cosnequence is we have no influence, meaning that FIFA is run by a lunatic, and only lunatics have a chance to be elected as UEFA president (Platini etc - the pillock). To me this means that if you disengage then you lose influence. Just like 'Europe'. in football some of us think it would be better if we not try to go to the world cup, etc . . . the football equivalent of the UKIP ideal. A good idea? Sadly it is a bit late now to flounce off. UKIP are the political equivalent of the football founcers, who would rather us just have 'home championships' every spring and to hell with the rest of the buggers.
The one way to oppose UKIP is to challenge their bogus vision of a UK out of Europe, trading freely again with the old empire (Australia, NZ, SA). Yes it works for Switzerlan and Sweden to be semi detached from Europe, but they have their reasons, and in the case of Sweden, who cares? It is quite different for UK to go marching off. We are supposed to be one of the big 3 in Europe (along with France and Germany). In what way does it serve our interests to behave more like Greece or Italy, threatening to disengage? The French and Germans think we are mad and destructive to threaten to 'leave' and, unlike with Switzerland, they will punish us if we do. OK, so having to spend 2 hours going through customs when taking the chunnel of ferry to France, or the Freddy Laker to Faro, like we do when we travel to the US or Israel, might be a small price to pay for our 'freedom'. But what worries me is that like some have said on here, 'Europe' will probably collapse in 20 years. Then, who knows? War? I'd rather be inside the tent where I have some influence than out.
Actually, after all that, the arguments in favour of staying 'in' seem rather weak. Lol! Someone bail me out with some reasoned logic or I might just vote UKIP after all.
Only if they have a very limited understanding of politics, or they are rather well off.
An ordinary working British person should support greater equality - improved wages, more spending power, better working conditions, more public money to the NHS - a healthier, fairer and more progressive society to which to bring up their children. These are all things that UKIP do NOT represent.
Which shows you are utterly out of touch as UKIP does actually support the two items I've underlined. I guess it's rather difficult for someone that supports a dictator like Assad and thinks our democracy is a bad thing will find it rather difficult to spot facts !
Great post, but Europe will never get on. <snip> The tory have no intention of pulling out and Ukip is the only option for some. The ukip "repatriation" of money through fiddling their commission expenses is a policy which I support. The Federal state is sucking us dry.
"White Britons"??
And another UKIP candidate recently on Question Time.
Oh and Winston McKenzie UKIP Croydon.
Disagree with UKIP? Then you're commie scum, like the BBC audience tonight.
Tolerance, compassion, equality - these are traits of weakness. Rich, white Britons are the backbone of the country - they are the ones that need our support, not the vulnerable, immigrants or working classes.
Vote UKIP
I think if UKIP were to see your post they would consider using it
Its time to put our country first.
Give them a chance and se how they do. . Its not racist, we need change. Time we took time out to look after number onee
Vote ukip . Save our country. Make ur votes count.