[Albion] Vile racist language in the South Stand

[Triggaaar]

You’ve provided the context of why the boy was so incredibly abusive. Tough call but would you prefer that he is not allowed to watch games at the Amex?

I'd prefer the parent/guardian was told that they'd constantly have to correct the child (like, if you say anything like that, we immediately apologise to the people around us, explaining the issue, and take a 10/15 min break. That way the child may have a chance to learn what is and isn't acceptable in society. And if the adult was not prepared to help, then yes, they're banned until they can.

 

[BadFish]

I come across it daily, people using it as a reason to be treated differently than others beyond the normal processes in place (which should always be followed).

One off the top of my head is an aircraft change, I can assure you every change I deal with leads to at least one set of parents demanding an upgrade in cabin class due to this happening as their child (or all) are on the spectrum as it's triggered them, you investigate this slightly and they get annoyed you've dared question it.

What do you think certain peoples reactions are now they hear the word autism after dealing with things like that daily are? as previously said I feel sad for the people who have kids with serious autism, selfish people using the line "my child has autism" for the latest issue or a hunt for compensation has made their life harder.

That really does sound like an issue. Some people are dispicable.

I will take issue with your notion of 'serious autism' but I suspect this is a slip of the keyboard.

You obviously work at an airport and I wonder if any steps are being taken to address the issue you describe? Last time I travelled to the UK Melbourne airport offered us lanyards to signal that the kids had a hidden disability. It didn't gain us anything extra as such but it did mean that people adapted their manner with us and we're a little softer and more understanding with the kids.

Interestingly we didn't need to produce any evidence of their neuro diversity so I suspect that parents faking it was not an issue.

You are obviously really good at spotting the fakers from the genuine so I hope you do all you can to make sure you look after the genuine.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Sorry Dave my use of profanity’s was excessive
I was a tad vexed by the persistent feigning of head injury by the opposition and the inability of the referee to control the situation

Not aimed at you mate, but you know who I am talking about

 

[brighton_dave]

Just a thought ... and apologies if someone has already mentioned this in the 16 pages of posts.

There is an Anti Social Hotline for reporting incidents - you text location, description and nature of issue to 07880 196442

Maybe an option for reporting something like this so stewards could go to the area in question and listen out themselves.

I've not used it - so don't know how effective it is with response times etc.

I will update the initial post with this as great to make this visible. Thanks for sharing.

 

[BadFish]

It takes a great deal of effort and time to get a kid properly diagnosed and supported for 'behavioural' mental health issues. Our teenager has ADHD but that is a 'diagnosis' accepted by the school without any proper medical back up, owing to the 3 year wait for specialist assessment. I have never heard of a parent inappropriately excusing a kid's behaviour (as in 'don't criticise' rather than 'can you cut us a bit of slack here while I sort it out?') because they have autism, let alone using this as a bridge to litigation.

The very idea is pejorative, and reminds me of the comments, back in the 80s, about the quest to have homosexuality legalized, as in: 'now they have it legalized they'll want it made compulsory, next'. I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but....

It does seem rather odd. I am a bit stuck on the idea that the poster can tell who is faking and who isn't. It's not call a hidden disability for nothing.

If people are lying about their kid's autism for personal gain that is terrible of course but perhaps there is more to it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

That really does sound like an issue. Some people are dispicable.

I will take issue with your notion of 'serious autism' but I suspect this is a slip of the keyboard.

You obviously work at an airport and I wonder if any steps are being taken to address the issue you describe? Last time I travelled to the UK Melbourne airport offered us lanyards to signal that the kids had a hidden disability. It didn't gain us anything extra as such but it did mean that people adapted their manner with us and we're a little softer and more understanding with the kids.

Interestingly we didn't need to produce any evidence of their neuro diversity so I suspect that parents faking it was not an issue.

You are obviously really good at spotting the fakers from the genuine so I hope you do all you can to make sure you look after the genuine.

The issue is people are too scared to call out potential fakers so the problem has been allowed to grow and grow ( I feel this is an issue across the board on various issues as we've moved into a compensation culture) as posted further up you can have a good guess as who is lying, I tend to find those with children on the spectrum are happy to work with you to find a solution and understand that aviation doesn't always go as planned and themselves are prepared, not always the case but a good guide to go by, however I don't think I treat anyone differently if they advise they have.

I've had some absolutely vile abuse thrown at staff when they deny someone an upgrade for example after they have mentioned a child has autism.


The lanyards are a great way of helping staff, however with the mass turn over of staff at airports etc I feel like training is missed and help isn't always there.

I've not meant to come over as offensive in this topic, apologies if anyone has taken any of this the wrong way.

 

[BadFish]

The issue is people are too scared to call out potential fakers so the problem has been allowed to grow and grow ( I feel this is an issue across the board on various issues as we've moved into a compensation culture) as posted further up you can have a good guess as who is lying, I tend to find those with children on the spectrum are happy to work with you to find a solution and understand that aviation doesn't always go as planned and themselves are prepared, not always the case but a good guide to go by.


The lanyards are a great way of helping staff, however with the mass turn over of staff at airports etc I feel like training is missed and help isn't always there.

I've not meant to come over as offensive in this topic, apologies if anyone has taken any of this the wrong way.

So is it more the compensation side of things you are talking about?

Edit: upgrades too.

No stress from me, I'm not offended. Just trying to understand the issue you are describing because as you say it is making it more difficult for people.

 

[Zeberdi]

Just a thought ... and apologies if someone has already mentioned this in the 16 pages of posts.

There is an Anti Social Hotline for reporting incidents - you text location, description and nature of issue to 07880 196442

Maybe an option for reporting something like this so stewards could go to the area in question and listen out themselves.

I've not used it - so don't know how effective it is with response times etc.

Correct me if I have misunderstood the above suggestion but you are not suggesting autistic children (as was described by the guardians of the child at the Amex) or adults exhibiting autistic behavioural issues should be reported to an anti-social hotline? Or even reported to a dedicated anti-social hotline at the Club? I can’t really see how that would work anyway, even if it was an acceptable idea for situations like the OP had. During a match environment - the terraces are full of stewards anyway and personally, I can’t remember the last time I had a good mobile phone reception while watching a game at the Amex.

The following is definitely not directed at you @heavysoul but a general view I have on why autism should not come under an ASB paradigm.

- The end product going down that route is kids being given ASBOS and having criminal records for no other reason than someone else’s intolerance which frankly is abusive imo - I understand that people can get upset, annoyed or feel disturbed by autistic behaviour but reporting them to an anti-social hotline is definitely not an appropriate way to treat people with autistic related behaviour issues IMHO and it is definitely not how our football club treats people with disabilities or health disorders.

Charity pleads for tolerance as autistic youngsters face Asbos

Children with autism and other serious psychological conditions are being targetted by the government's controversial anti-social behaviour orders (Asbos), according to mental health charities and professionals.

www.theguardian.com

‘“In one case in the South West, a 15-year-old boy with Asperger's syndrome, an autistic disorder, was given an Asbo which stated he was not to stare over his neighbours' fence into their garden.”. The young man concerned had no previous criminal convictions, but if he breached the order by 'continuing to stare' he faced a custodial sentence.’

“In one example discovered by BIBIC, an Asbo was given to a 15-year-old with Tourette syndrome, which can involve an inability to stop shouting out profanities. The order banned the teenager from swearing in public, something made impossible by the gravity of his disorder.”

We need to find more tolerant ways to respond to adults and children with autism (and have more empathy for their parents/caregivers) than simply defining behaviour such as described above as ‘anti-social’

This is how we deal with ASB in this Country - it’s not how IMO we should deal with people with autism or other serious mental health disorders

What the Law says: Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2014

What the Law says - Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014

asbhelp.co.uk

As far as BHA goes, IMO and based on my own personal experience, the Club welcomes and accommodates all forms of disability and has an excellent inclusion policy - regular disabled supporters or their carers/parents will know they can be registered online on the Club’s website as a disabled supporter, the Club is aware of their needs and there is plenty of provision of disabled seating etc. For anyone one though, because of a health condition, like autism, where ‘normal seating areas’ or the disabled seating areas might not be suitable because of the impact of their behaviour on others around them and/or because of sensory overload, then the Club’s Inclusion Room can be booked which is especially suitable for people with autism, alzeimers, ADHD etc

To book the Inclusion Room or for more information, please contact millie.crowhurst@brightonandhovealbion.com

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Correct me if I have misunderstood the above suggestion but you are not suggesting autistic children (as was described by the guardians of the child at the Amex) or adults exhibiting autistic behavioural issues should be reported to an anti-social hotline? Or even reported to a dedicated anti-social hotline at the Club? I can’t really see how that would work anyway, even if it was an acceptable idea for situations like the OP had. During a match environment - the terraces are full of stewards anyway and personally, I can’t remember the last time I had a good mobile phone reception while watching a game at the Amex.

Just in case you have misunderstood … the reason I thought it worthwhile highlighting the hotline number …

When the incident the OP was talking about in the first half was taking place, he had no idea that the young person was autistic. The OP didn’t feel comfortable turning around and speaking to the parent/guardian about what was happening. I wouldn’t either as I prefer to steer clear of confrontation as you don’t know how someone might behave or react. If the incident was reported to the number then stewards could come and see for themselves - at the time it was happening - if it was a situation that needed to be dealt with. They might have decided all was ok. Or they might have thought a conversation with the guardian (not the young person) was appropriate. We don’t know. So I was just suggesting it as an alternative to confronting someone directly - then it’s for the club to decide.

As for the terraces being ‘full’ of stewards??. Are you seriously suggesting there are enough of them to know what’s going on or being said in every row of the ground!! Certainly there aren’t where I am in West Upper!

EDIT: re your last point … I can send texts during a game, no problem!

Sorry … another edit … I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that autism per se is anti social (I’m most certainly not), but if a persons behaviour is potentially inappropriate for the situation at the time, then a decision needs to be taken as to if it should be allowed to continue or not.

 

[Justice]

I don’t get the OP, agree it may of been uncomfortable hearing said language although I would have explained to my child the lad in question has some issues and not to take much notice or something like that.
Considering he asked his daughter if she wanted to move and she said no was she really that affected by it?
To scream for a policeman seems unwarranted tbh but that’s just me.
Obviously different if it’s an adult in their right mind shouting racist abuse for the hell of it.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

We need to find more tolerant ways to respond to adults and children with autism (and have more empathy for their parents/caregivers) than simply defining behaviour such as described above as ‘anti-social’

As far as BHA goes, IMO and based on my own personal experience, the Club welcomes and accommodates all forms of disability and has an excellent inclusion policy - regular disabled supporters or their carers/parents will know they can be registered online on the Club’s website as a disabled supporter, the Club is aware of their needs and there is plenty of provision of disabled seating etc. For anyone one though, because of a health condition, like autism, where ‘normal seating areas’ or the disabled seating areas might not be suitable because of the impact of their behaviour on others around them and/or because of sensory overload, then the Club’s Inclusion Room can be booked which is especially suitable for people with autism, alzeimers, ADHD etc

To book the Inclusion Room or for more information, please contact millie.crowhurst@brightonandhovealbion.com

I agree with this. I guess what we don’t know is if the young person attends games on a regular basis - or would like to going forward. In which case I wonder if the people that took him are aware of the inclusion room and what they need to do - which does look a very good option. Interesting that the same language wasn’t used in the second half with others (stewards?) sat in the seats.

 

[BadFish]

I don’t get the OP, agree it may of been uncomfortable hearing said language although I would have explained to my child the lad in question has some issues and not to take much notice or something like that.
Considering he asked his daughter if she wanted to move and she said no was she really that affected by it?
To scream for a policeman seems unwarranted tbh but that’s just me.
Obviously different if it’s an adult in their right mind shouting racist abuse for the hell of it.

Right mind?

I am sure you didn't mean this as it sounds but let's be clear autism is a different mind not a wrong one.

Small but really important distinction for a lot of people.

 

[Justice]

Right mind?

I am sure you didn't mean this as it sounds but let's be clear autism is a different mind not a wrong one.

Small but really important distinction for a lot of people.

Does anyone know if the mouthy kid is actually autistic though? Lot of assumptions. And no I didn’t mean to cause any offence.

 

[BadFish]

Does anyone know if the mouthy kid is actually autistic though? Lot of assumptions. And no I didn’t mean to cause any offence.

Yeah true, no offence taken. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[brighton_dave]

I don’t get the OP, agree it may of been uncomfortable hearing said language although I would have explained to my child the lad in question has some issues and not to take much notice or something like that.
Considering he asked his daughter if she wanted to move and she said no was she really that affected by it?
To scream for a policeman seems unwarranted tbh but that’s just me.
Obviously different if it’s an adult in their right mind shouting racist abuse for the hell of it.

1 I had no idea the child had autism at the time.
2 It was my daughters birthday present and she did not wish to leave at that time despite me trying to encourage her as I don't want her hearing racist language or references to being raped. "I really don't want to miss a goal daddy"!
I did not want to draw too much attention and make it awkward for her.
3 I wish I had your physic skills and maybe I could've explained this at the time. Either way it still needed words as the adults responsible failed to deal with it. It dismays me you imply its OK to just let the child call out abuse with regards to rape and race. The adults responsible were right in not dealing with it too I assume?
3 I advised the stewards who took it on themselves to call the police. Again I wanted this to be out of sight as didn't know what on earth the family were like. Where did I ever mention "screaming for the police"?
4 I didn't contront it there and then as didn't want confrontation. I imagined if the kid is like this then what are the adults with him like. Again I DID NOT KNOW the kid had autism at the time.
5 I am fully aware of mental health issues as I've clearly stated. My eldest daughter has an EHCP in place after many years of battling CAMHS. Parenting is hard, very hard and perhaps if I had your attitude it would've been easier as she could then do as she pleases as she has a mental illness. It is a plausible reason for everyone else to have to tolerate it. I wish I'd know this was accepted in society many years ago.
6 The child is not a season ticket holder and is not a regular attendee.
7 I return to the office tomorrow with the understanding there may be reasons for colleagues calling me let's say a fat bast*rd and that I need to be rape* up the ars*. This hasn't happened to date despite such mental health issues being there.
Thanks for confirming its OK though, I will sleep soundly. I will also tell me children it's ok and not to be alarmed if they hear this at school. It is a new norm in 2023, something I never witnessed as a child.

I'm truly offending by your comments and very much worry if many more kids are raised to see this as acceptable. Some of the assumptions across posts have purely been used as justification and to be argumentative.

The PMs I've received and majority of comments however give me hope. The PM's being there to avoid some of the truly awful responses they'd get.

Unbelievable there are some who think it should just be allowed.

My final take on all of this is the child should have been dealt with by the responsible or let's say irresponsible adults and encouraged by the club to be in a different area appropriate to the risk and offence they may cause. This I accept but it did not happen.

 

[Horses Arse]

1 I had no idea the child had autism at the time.
2 It was my daughters birthday present and she did not wish to leave at that time despite me trying to encourage her as I don't want her hearing racist language or references to being raped. "I really don't want to miss a goal daddy"!
I did not want to draw too much attention and make it awkward for her.
3 I wish I had your physic skills and maybe I could've explained this at the time. Either way it still needed words as the adults responsible failed to deal with it. It dismays me you imply its OK to just let the child call out abuse with regards to rape and race. The adults responsible were right in not dealing with it too I assume?
3 I advised the stewards who took it on themselves to call the police. Again I wanted this to be out of sight as didn't know what on earth the family were like. Where did I ever mention "screaming for the police"?
4 I didn't contront it there and then as didn't want confrontation. I imagined if the kid is like this then what are the adults with him like. Again I DID NOT KNOW the kid had autism at the time.
5 I am fully aware of mental health issues as I've clearly stated. My eldest daughter has an EHCP in place after many years of battling CAMHS. Parenting is hard, very hard and perhaps if I had your attitude it would've been easier as she could then do as she pleases as she has a mental illness. It is a plausible reason for everyone else to have to tolerate it. I wish I'd know this was accepted in society many years ago.
6 The child is not a season ticket holder and is not a regular attendee.
7 I return to the office tomorrow with the understanding there may be reasons for colleagues calling me let's say a fat bast*rd and that I need to be rape* up the ars*. This hasn't happened to date despite such mental health issues being there.
Thanks for confirming its OK though, I will sleep soundly. I will also tell me children it's ok and not to be alarmed if they hear this at school. It is a new norm in 2023, something I never witnessed as a child.

I'm truly offending by your comments and very much worry if many more kids are raised to see this as acceptable. Some of the assumptions across posts have purely been used as justification and to be argumentative.

The PMs I've received and majority of comments however give me hope. The PM's being there to avoid some of the truly awful responses they'd get.

Unbelievable there are some who think it should just be allowed.

My final take on all of this is the child should have been dealt with by the responsible or let's say irresponsible adults and encouraged by the club to be in a different area appropriate to the risk and offence they may cause. This I accept but it did not happen.

Makes you wonder what the point is at times. Utterly bizarre reactions to what was clearly a horrible situation.

The lesson that I will take from this is to never mention aut.... oops, nearly did it again.

 

[Zeberdi]

I agree with this. I guess what we don’t know is if the young person attends games on a regular basis - or would like to going forward. In which case I wonder if the people that took him are aware of the inclusion room and what they need to do - which does look a very good option. Interesting that the same language wasn’t used in the second half with others (stewards?) sat in the seats.

Thanks for your earlier clarification - you are right, stewards aren’t all along the terraces but they are positioned at the exit points so, what I meant was, in that situation, it would be more appropriate I think to just get up and walk to the nearest Steward and speak to them quietly, rather than have some sort of ‘anti-social hotline’ -

By all accounts, the OP acted very appropriately both for the protection of his own child and in getting the Stewards involved. It obviously is not acceptable to have racist and profane language being shouted in a public area but there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to respond and I think the Club officials/Stewards/Police are best placed to decide which course of action is required once the behaviour has been reported. I cringe and get annoyed every time I hear a profanity within earshot of a young child (and have often spoken to whoever is guilty of it if it is obviously not because of an ASD or Mental Health issue) and I don’t have kids so god knows what a parent must feel like if they also hate profanity and racist remarks near their own kids.

In terms of going forward, I have always been very impressed with the level of training and quality of our match stewards - they will be trained to deal with issues in a sensitive way, especially with regard to any form of disability or ASD - stewards offering the service of the Inclusion Room or space in the disabled seating area and offering to help take them there, might be exactly what the parents or guardians would welcome in a situation where a child is being triggered - a much quieter environment, less sensory overload, more comfortable seating and better views. In the OP’s incident, it didn’t sound that that was necessary by the time the Steward arrived but the parents/guardians did subsequently confirm apparently that their child was autistic so I am sure, if they didn’t know beforehand about the Club’s Inclusion Room, it almost certainly would have been offered for the future if required.

What the Club could maybe do going forward from this incident, is to include on the ticket purchasing process online, a short questionnaire before completing payment asking whether ‘you’ or anyone ‘you’ are buying tickets for, has any special needs or disabilities and would prefer a more accessible seating area or would like to book the Inclusion Room if tickets are available with a link to ‘more information’. There could be an option, once that is completed not to be asked again, in future purchases. Just an idea.


Sometimes, what is needed in these situations is support not confrontation (edit - for everyone involved!)

 

[BadFish]

Sounds like the OP and the club have dealt with this situation really well. Jobs a good un. Well done all round.

 

[Zeberdi]

Sounds like the OP and the club have dealt with this situation really well. Jobs a good un. Well done all round.

Yes, they did (and thank you for acknowledging the above - I was beginning to wonder if I was on your ignore list ) - it needed saying that both sides had rights and needs in this situation which the Club is well placed to deal with (and did) because it hasn’t been very well expressed in this thread, hence all the arguments and triggers I think.

 

[BadFish]

Yes, they did (and thank you for acknowledging the above - I was beginning to wonder if I was on your ignore list ) - it needed saying that both sides had rights and needs in this situation which the Club is well placed to deal with (and did) because it hasn’t been very well expressed in this thread, hence all the arguments and triggers I think.

No not on my ignore list

I think the problem was that this thread quickly moved away from the incident and started talking about autism in general. I apologise for my part in that but it is a subject that I can and do talk about endlessly (and did ). As you say the club are in the best position to work out the best way forward, I hope the kid gets what he needs.