[Albion] VAR decision on Estupiñán goal

[jcdenton08]

How can they improve human error through a meeting though? Human error has always been an issue with officiating since football began. Unless the technology gets improved where it actually makes the decisions, then surely these human errors will just continue?

What do you do with a poor performing player? You replace them with another player and give them their chance. Hopefully they grab it, which raises the quality - in this case the quality of the VAR operating process and decision making.

Then, as the standard gets higher, the competition becomes more fierce with better trained and competent people waiting in the wings.

Sticking with individuals who consistently perform badly in a job is folly

 

[OzMike]

Would rather the points than an apology.

 

[Springal]

How can they improve human error through a meeting though? Human error has always been an issue with officiating since football began. Unless the technology gets improved where it actually makes the decisions, then surely these human errors will just continue?

What happens to people that make any kind of mistake at your place of work? The technology worked fine in this case, the individuals using it was the problem

Good to hear Webb is starting to take control so early. Thought he might be fairly low touch for the rest of the season and reset in the summer but if he does sack either / both based on this weekend good for him.

Been to much of a protected , closed ranks organisation under Mike Riley for to long

 

[Pondicherry]

I think an apology is all we will get but it should be a proper apology in person (filmed) from whoever (or all if multiple individuals) made the error, explaining exactly what happened and how they got it wrong

 

[Zeberdi]

Trust me, the image the VAR lot use is anything but blurry.

It is when they zoom in and are looking at a highly pixelated image to determine if a toenail was in the offside position!

 

[Zeberdi]

Having posted a long list earlier of various suggestions/reforms that would improve VAR, I wasn’t going to jump in again but I’ll add anyway (in response to some subsequent comments):

I can’t see any particular reason why there should not be a proper appeals process for VAR decisions post match whereby Managers of the team disadvantaged in the match by a VAR decision that has been subsequently ruled incorrect by PGMOL, can appeal to have a compensation point added to their season’s tally to date.

Someone said you cant have post-match appeals because you can’t/shouldn’t change the outcome of a game once the final whistle is blown - fair enough so leave the result as stands - you could still award a compensatory point to the team disadvantaged by the VAR decision without changing the result of the game and without directly disadvantaging the opponent over the course of a season. The team that won still gets the 3 points, or both teams still get 1 point for a draw regardless. After all, at the end of the day, it’s the points that matter and over the course of a season there could be predetermined appeals limit of say up to 3 appeals a season (used at the managers discretion) so the maximum a team could gain in compensation points would 3 per season. This would allow for up to 3 PGMOL ruled VAR errors per team per season - which should about cover it - and it amounts to one extra win - BUT the prerequisite for an appeal is that the VAR decision is determined by PGMOL to have been an error.

This would seem the fairest to me and a solution that the fans might accept if VAR refs have made such a glaring error of judgement so eg. yesterday both teams would get a point for the draw but Brighton could use one of the 3 appeals allowed a season to have that incorrect VAR decision converted to one PL point. (Just need an additional column in the table!)

If teams can have league points deducted for infringement of rules etc no reason why they cant have points awarded when the rules have been applied in error.

An apology is fcuking useless.

 

[OzMike]

An apology won't rectify anything, points will.

 

[portlock seagull]

Having posted a long list earlier of various suggestions/reforms that would improve VAR, I wasn’t going to jump in again but I’ll add anyway (in response to some subsequent comments):

I can’t see any particular reason why there should not be a proper appeals process for VAR decisions post match whereby Managers of the team disadvantaged in the match by a VAR decision that has been subsequently ruled incorrect by PGMOL, can appeal to have a compensation point added to their season’s tally to date.

Someone said you cant have post-match appeals because you can’t/shouldn’t change the outcome of a game once the final whistle is blown - fair enough so leave the result as stands - you could still award a compensatory point to the team disadvantaged by the VAR decision without changing the result of the game and without directly disadvantaging the opponent over the course of a season. The team that won still gets the 3 points, or both teams still get 1 point for a draw regardless. After all, at the end of the day, it’s the points that matter and over the course of a season there could be predetermined appeals limit of say up to 3 appeals a season (used at the managers discretion) so the maximum a team could gain in compensation points would 3 per season. This would allow for up to 3 PGMOL ruled VAR errors per team per season - which should about cover it - and it amounts to one extra win - BUT the prerequisite for an appeal is that the VAR decision is determined by PGMOL to have been an error.

This would seem the fairest to me and a solution that the fans might accept if VAR refs have made such a glaring error of judgement so eg. yesterday both teams would get a point for the draw but Brighton could use one of the 3 appeals allowed a season to have that incorrect VAR decision converted to one PL point. (Just need an additional column in the table!)

If teams can have league points deducted for infringement of rules etc no reason why they cant have points awarded when the rules have been applied in error.

An apology is fcuking useless.

Nothing wrong with that suggestion, it’s coming for sure. And why not? Football is such a total mess across the board. In for a Penny in for a billion pounds. That just leaves introduction of CGI fans, removal of stadiums as an expensive unnecessary overhead when green screens can do the job and a WWF Panto format ie results are predetermined. Which they kind of already are because of sportswashing. The beautiful game eh?!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Ironically, that looks like a 'clear and obvious' error by the VAR

So we'll need another VAR team put in place to check for 'clear and obvious' errors made by the original VAR team? Not sure even then that i'd trust them to get it right

 

[A1X]

“We’re going to keep firing the shite refs until they improve” doesn’t seem like a strategy which will work long term, if I’m honest.

 

[Diallo]

I bet what really happens at the meeting is a collective agreement amongst the VAR mafia that the Jaws theme tune should be the backing music for when VAR are looking for fouls/offsides.

 

[Seagull58]

How does that work? The goal was the first of the game, so what was the ‘bet’ ? Or maybe Sanchez took a bung as well ?

It could have been betting against Brighton leading at HT, betting on a goalless first half, betting against Brighton winning the match. If you bet on the betting exchanges you can trade out for a profit as the odds change over time. You don't have to let the bet run till the end of the match.

 

[Technohead]

So own up .... who's been editting John Brooks Wiki page?

 

[Technohead]

John Brooks is a nobhead. Prior to this, Brooks had been a Select Group 2 referee since 2018, and prior to this, he had been a Premier League assistant referee.[

In December 2021, Brooks refereed his first Premier League match between Wolves and Burnley at Molineux. In February 2023, John was the VAR ref for Brighton vs Palace when he made an inexcusable mistake by using the wrong defender to disallow a goal for Brighton due to offside. Useless tosser.

 

[One Love]

So they've admitted human error.

I can understand this if there is just one human making the error but here we have a group of officials who have all failed to notice the glaringly obvious that the line has been drawn in the wrong place.

I cannot see how this has been done by mistake.

 

[SeagullinExile]

I cannot see how the 2 decisions yesterday against Brighton and Arsenal can be down to incompetence. Mason literally "forgot" to draw the lines and check for offside. Brooks literally "did not see" the other defender nearer the goal. It has to be deliberate, corrupt decision-making. We've had match-fixing in cricket, tennis and snooker, driven by Asian betting syndicates. It is the obvious reason for yesterday's "errors".

Asian betting syndicates are the obvious reason for yesterday’s errors are they?

That’s a mental and somewhat ridiculous conclusion to come to!

 

[SeagullinExile]

So they've admitted human error.

I can understand this if there is just one human making the error but here we have a group of officials who have all failed to notice the glaringly obvious that the line has been drawn in the wrong place.

I cannot see how this has been done by mistake.

Easily. They didn’t do their jobs properly. It happens in all walks of life!

 

[dsr-burnley]

They could improve this by simply going back to the old rule of "level is onside". I have no idea why the power-that-be have chosen not to apply this rule, which could be checked in 10 seconds without recourse to inaccurate lines on the screen. Clearly under the old rule the goal was good whichever defender they looked at.

But no. The VAR bosses have decided that by pretending they can judge it to the inch and using that as the new rule - ie. you can't be level, basically - then they can (a) disallow quite a lot of goals that used to be uncontroversially good; (b) ensure that celebrating goals loses its joy because you don't know for several minutes if you have scored; (c) make judging offside to be impossible for the linesman and so forcing the rule about delayed flags.

Whatever the powers that be wanted in the first place, it is clear that the reason they carry on ruling offsides like this is because they want goals to be disallowed, they want goal celebrations to be delayed, they want play to carry on when the man is offside. Which means they are idiots. Why can't we find some people who are NOT idiots to run VAR?

 

[jcdenton08]

 

[Diallo]

Asian betting syndicates are the obvious reason for yesterday’s errors are they?

That’s a mental and somewhat ridiculous conclusion to come to!

Any excuse m for a bit of the old east vs west crap.

I reckon it was more down to the VAR team too concerned about the speed of the decision.