[Albion] VAR decision on Estupiñán goal

[Triggaaar]

I'd like to see VAR scrapped but have a TV monitor by the side of the pitch for the referee to use if he's not sure about something. No line drawing needed. That way there should be no complete howlers which is what VAR was originally intended for.

That's not a bad idea, but you'd obviously end up with players surrounding the ref and hassling them to go to the monitor.

 

[Diallo]

First time VAR was actually used in English football ... I remember the check on Murray's winner!

VAR enjoys smooth debut in FA Cup as lack of drama shows system’s benefits | Amy Lawrence

Glenn Murray’s late goal was reviewed by the VAR in a quick and accurate fashion as the technology enjoyed a low-key, trouble free first match on English soil

www.theguardian.com

Opportunity for us counteract that 1861 Palace song?

“We’re the first there’s ever been that VAR got to see and it’s Brighton and Hove Albion, Brighton and….

 

[Triggaaar]

They did have a look and deemed it a yellow card, I believe.

Precedent was set for thos sorts of tackles though when they failed to send off Fabinho for his similar tackle against Ferguson.

Mac's tackle and Faninho's were completely different.

 

[Diallo]

Mac's tackle and Faninho's were completely different.

Agreed, but Mac’s tackle did leave me with my heart in my mouth. He’d just taken a tackle, rolled around a bit and then got up looking pretty pissed off. His foul came almost straight afterwards and he definitely looked like he was biting his lip just before he went in for the tackle.

Could easily have been a red.

 

[BBassic]

Mac's tackle and Faninho's were completely different.

I only meant both a touch dangerous

 

[Triggaaar]

I only meant both a touch dangerous

Ok. I really didn't think Mac's was a red card - he clearly tried to get the ball and his foot seemed to bounce up, causing the collision. Fabinho never had a chance of winning the ball and was simply trying to take Ferguson out, it was a horror challenge.

 

[BBassic]

Ok. I really didn't think Mac's was a red card - he clearly tried to get the ball and his foot seemed to bounce up, causing the collision. Fabinho never had a chance of winning the ball and was simply trying to take Ferguson out, it was a horror challenge.

Oh yeah agree. Fabinho's was much clearer.

Even this discussion we're having speaks to the obvious troubls with VAR. Two humans, two slightly different views. A different ref, on a different day could have sent Mac off.

 

[Triggaaar]

Agreed, but Mac’s tackle did leave me with my heart in my mouth. He’d just taken a tackle, rolled around a bit and then got up looking pretty pissed off. His foul came almost straight afterwards and he definitely looked like he was biting his lip just before he went in for the tackle.

Could easily have been a red.

Fair enough. I didn't think it was, but maybe I didn't see it right. I didn't realise he was grimacing on his way in.

 

[Motogull]

VAR works well in rugby. If a ref is unsure, he asks "is there any reason why I cannot award a try?".

I thought VAR was to overturn clear and obvious errors. All this searching for millimeter accuracy is a load of shite. A toe was offside? f*** off. If you cannot say that the ref's original decision was clearly wrong it should stand.

 

[Icy Gull]

Ok. I really didn't think Mac's was a red card - he clearly tried to get the ball and his foot seemed to bounce up, causing the collision. Fabinho never had a chance of winning the ball and was simply trying to take Ferguson out, it was a horror challenge.

There seems to be quite a bit of scapegoating on here of Mac regarding yesterday‘s result. Should have been sent off, more responsibility for the failure to win than Sanchez howler etc. Weird. I am waiting for the first “get shot”

 

[Easy 10]

Never done anything like this before, but I guess it's worth a go.
There should be an appeal process, as it could cost some teams millions of pounds in extra lost revenue for a 'clear and obvious' mistake. A process to appeal a VAR decision - Sign the Petition! https://chng.it/jZYZkJqFqg

As if it doesn't already take long enough for VAR to come up with a decision, you want an appeals process built in as well ? My god, the game would never bloody end. And you can guarantee whichever team concedes a goal, especially a late one, would be straight onto the "appeals" button. Then you've got to decide who rules on the appeal. Do you go and get Howard Webb on the blower ?

Terrible idea which would just open up ANOTHER pandora's box of shite on top of what we're already stuck with. Always knew VAR would end up causing far more problems, aggravation and controversy that it solves, and so it has come to pass.

 

[Triggaaar]

Oh yeah agree. Fabinho's was much clearer.

Even this discussion we're having speaks to the obvious troubls with VAR. Two humans, two slightly different views. A different ref, on a different day could have sent Mac off.

I think we accept that decisions won't be perfect, but where we're at right now it seems they're completely crap. The offsides, although irritatingly pedantic (what?) did seem correct previously, but yesterday there were two absolute howlers. The red cards we're discussing - the pundits and Liverpool fans all thought Fabinho should have been sent off. I see there are some opinions here that Mac could have got a red, but is there much opinion that the yellow should have been changed to a red? I don't think the pundits even discussed it.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

As if it doesn't already take long enough for VAR to come up with a decision, you want an appeals process built in as well ? My god, the game would never bloody end. And you can guarantee whichever team concedes a goal, especially a late one, would be straight onto the "appeals" button. Then you've got to decide who rules on the appeal. Do you go and get Howard Webb on the blower ?

Terrible idea which would just open up ANOTHER pandora's box of shite on top of what we're already stuck with. Always knew VAR would end up causing far more problems, aggravation and controversy that it solves, and so it has come to pass.

Totally agree. We don’t need any more layers of complexity or delays. We need rid of VAR as it’s not fit for purpose, or it needs making fit.

I’m not a fan of appeals etc (real time challenges work in certain sports) but I’d never advocate for results to be changed retrospectively unless there was real corruption/match fixing/ineligible player etc. The result on the pitch should stand as it always has, we can accept human error from a ref who only has one look at something. We can’t accept human error from a system that allows multiple replays from multiple angles, there is no excuse for that.

 

[Diallo]

Fair enough. I didn't think it was, but maybe I didn't see it right. I didn't realise he was grimacing on his way in.

Even when he got up from the foul he committed, he still looked a bit angry. Huge relief he didn’t get sent off. Commentators were suggesting the shin pad took the brunt of his studs so it should only been a yellow. I liked their logic with that one.

 

[raymondo]

I just simply do not understand how Premier League VAR officials can be this incompetent to consistently make such basic mistakes. What is the root cause? Corruption? Miscommunication?

Would have been nice to see the lino say to the ref, "nope, I'm sure it was onside, take a look at the monitor or question their lines". Much responsibility now removed from the on pitch officials.

 

[Easy 10]

Totally agree. We don’t need any more layers of complexity or delays. We need rid of VAR as it’s not fit for purpose, or it needs making fit.

I’m not a fan of appeals etc (real time challenges work in certain sports) but I’d never advocate for results to be changed retrospectively unless there was real corruption/match fixing/ineligible player etc. The result on the pitch should stand as it always has, we can accept human error from a ref who only has one look at something. We can’t accept human error from a system that allows multiple replays from multiple angles, there is no excuse for that.

And thats the crux of it. Yes we've all moaned and grumbled at a poor refereeing decision, but there used to be the caveat that "well they only get one look at it from one angle, in real time". There was an acceptance of the fact that its a tough job out there, and sometimes they or the lino will get it wrong.

Now we've got some herberts sitting in a box taking several minutes from several angles to reach a decision, and STILL f***ing it right up - that's unforgivable. They've chosen to take offsides down to a molecular level, thats patently not what VAR was supposed to be brought in for, but here we are.

And yesterdays decision, I think, has to stand out as as the singlemost worst VAR decision since its introduction. To actually go and overrule what was a perfectly correct on-field decision by not interpreting the offside law correctly, or "not seeing" the last defender, is catastrophic incompetence on a quite mindblowing scale. I still can't quite believe what has happened.

Brooks should be the one making the apology along with the PGMOL, with an explanation of what he "thought" he saw, and the process by which he arrived at that decision. Only then can we fully piece it together and have some kind of reassurance that they will LEARN from it. As it is, we just get a mealy-mouthed apology and everyone is supposed to crack on. Pathetic.

 

[raymondo]

There seems to be quite a bit of scapegoating on here of Mac regarding yesterday‘s result. Should have been sent off, more responsibility for the failure to win than Sanchez howler etc. Weird. I am waiting for the first “get shot”

I think it's just fans' disappointment with the result, no? Mac is usually very reliable with his chances, that's all.

 

[Bodian]

One other thing on this was the length of time it took to rule the goal out. They actually took an age to draw the wrong line! I'd have a modicum more sympathy if they had 20 seconds to come to a decision (which I believe is the maximum amount of time any decision should take) but it took probably 2 mins to make this glaring error with not one of the people involved saying, "oi, you've drawn the line from the wrong player". Very fishy.

It seemed to take an age to tell us that VAR was checking and then an age to check.

As you say it's bizarre.

I often have to do some analysis as part of my job.
When I make an error, more often than not, I spot it quickly, because the data doesn't make sense.

Surely this was the case here, the lines look about a foot apart, but clearly he wasn't that far offside.
But if they missed the mistake, why did it take so long to rule it out?
I just don't understand how they didn't clock their mistake, given all the time it took.

But the odd thing was - the image with the lines and 'offside' appeared on my stream a good 30+ seconds before it was conveyed to the ref. I assumed they were checking other angles or something.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As expected, lots of Arsenal fans calling for Lee Mason to be sacked.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

S

As expected, lots of Arsenal fans calling for Lee Mason to be sacked.

A thorough review will get our points back