US election (merged threads)

[Hastings gull]

In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, something major will happen while Trump is president and Putin rules in Russia. Not sure what exactly, but it will result in quite a large war that Europe will have no choice to be involved in. NATO won't choose to support the US as Trump has very different ideals to them. The rest of NATO consists mainly of European countries that'll look out for themselves and their closest allies. Although the EU and NATO are entirely different things, leaving the EU will have an impact on our relationship with other EU countries, especially as a big part of us leaving the EU was so we could stop citizens of EU countries coming to the UK.

Ok, you do say that it is just your opinion, to which you are quite entitled, of course. But there really is far too much speculation here.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, something major will happen while Trump is president and Putin rules in Russia. Not sure what exactly, but it will result in quite a large war that Europe will have no choice to be involved in. NATO won't choose to support the US as Trump has very different ideals to them. The rest of NATO consists mainly of European countries that'll look out for themselves and their closest allies. Although the EU and NATO are entirely different things, leaving the EU will have an impact on our relationship with other EU countries, especially as a big part of us leaving the EU was so we could stop citizens of EU countries coming to the UK.

Trump said America needs to stay out of other nations business. I don't think he'll be like the warmongers of his predecessors.

 

[Soulman]

I think Clinton must be even more unpopular than we thought - that must be as big as factor as any attraction that voting Trump has.

Yep, as I stated before, I have been looking for ages with interest on the opinions of Americans, Clinton has a very bad reputation. I think if the Democrats had put up a half decent fairly honest candidate then they would have walked it.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

One of the funniest and most incorrect posts I've ever read on here. Brilliant. Farage anti establishment?! Hahahaha! Genius.

You clearly have no clue what the ' Establishment ' means. It is a power brokerage. A cabal. Largely unseen but enormously powerful and influential. It attempts to ensure that the status quo is maintained. Farage is not a member of this exclusive club and rails against their motives and their agenda. Public school, a job in the City and previously being a member of the Conservative party doesn't make him Establishment. They don't want any change to the system. It benefits them and rewards them.
You need to develop a little more understanding of how power is wielded before making rather silly comments like this.

 

[Hastings gull]

No, in America and Britain, democracy (and therefore the public) are manipulated, so that the interests of a minority - the richest 1% and the interest of big business - continue to be prioritised.

I bet you that in, say 4 years time, after Brexit, and with Theresa May as Prime Minister and Trump as President of the USA, the gap between the rich and the low-paid will be wider than ever, and the domination of the British and American economies by a handful of huge corporations will be stronger than ever.

Absolutely nothing will change or improve for the working class - the 'left behind' - who voted for Brexit in the UK or Trump in the USA. These Right-wing 'populists' are exploiting the (understandable and often justified) grievances and resentments of the working class or blue-collar workers for their own political ends.

I am angry that millions of ordinary people work hard for crap wages (while top bosses and bankers pay themselves £millions in salaries and bonuses each year), endure zero-hours contracts and chronic job insecurity, pay over half of their wage in rent to some scummy landlord, and generally struggle to make ends meet. But not for a nanosecond do I think that Farage/Brexit, Theresa May or Donald Trump will do anything to tackle these problems.

Odd, too, that when I point out the problems of the working class/blue collar workers - the 'left behind' - I'm called a Commie and told to F*** off and live in North Korea !

Perhaps if you just tone down your rhetoric and not indulge in such exaggerated nonsense, then others would not tell you where to go. Its the usual argument isn't it from leftie fanatics -the 1% manipulate the rest and no one is bright enough to see it; only visionaries such as yourself.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You clearly have no clue what the ' Establishment ' means. It is a power brokerage. A cabal. Largely unseen but enormously powerful and influential. It attempts to ensure that the status quo is maintained. Farage is not a member of this exclusive club and rails against their motives and their agenda. Public school, a job in the City and previously being a member of the Conservative party doesn't make him Establishment. They don't want any change to the system. It benefits them and rewards them.
You need to develop a little more understanding of how power is wielded before making rather silly comments like this.

Couldn't you have simply just left it at

'You clearly have no clue'?

 

[alfredmizen]

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Peaceful morning ?

Lol!

 

[Collingburnian]

I don't think, as many here seem to, that Trump will get his own way . He will not be the dictator many imagine. Long before yesterday's election, many influential Republicans were distancing themselves from him and will be able to curb many of his wild excesses. This was not a General Election, no new administration was formed. It was an election between two people, not two parties.

 

[Hastings gull]

I must admit to knowing few exact details on Hilary Clinton's misdemeanours however, I am far more concerned by the admitted failings of Donald Trump which he somehow manages to twist to show that he is the fittest person to lead America.

Or put another way, I only want to know about arguments against those I don't agree with.

 

[Hillian1]

 

[peterward]

Lenin had campaigned for years and years as a revolutionary socialist. How that equates to Trump, I don't know.

of course it does, in a no media era, Lenins rise was partly based on his (limited) stated ideals and supporters of what is now called Leninism but that was never enough to get him into power. Nicholas the 2nd who had 12 years earlier sensed the popular mood changing had sought to change the Russian system to a constitutional monarchy which had seen off opposition temporarily.

In October 1917 with massive losses in world war one and the peasants starving whilst the elites suffered no such fate and enjoyed the trappings of wealth, Lenin used desperation for change and turned that anti establishment sentiment and rioting to launch his revolution. Whilst he had his supporters, the majority, were not so much thrusting Lenin into power based on his socialist ideals, they had become anti establishment based on the circumstances of their daily lives and the perceived injustice. Lenin harnessed that to great effect to sweep to power.

Did the peasants know what comes next? of course they didn't, they just wanted something to be different, without really knowing who Lenin was, and here was the challenger to the establishment, so they backed him.

Did they have any idea what he might do next, like kill all the intelligentsia? Did they know then what Communism would actually do to this resource rich, highly intelligent, highly skilled, cultural race? they had no idea what it meant in the long term.

 

[Insel affe]

Peaceful morning ?

I got up at 4 to watch the results roll in and was so tempted to wake her up after the Florida result, but thought better of it...

Oh she went to work in tears, ashamed of her country and her dad voting for him.

It is what it is, I said laughing at the thought only the Americans can out Trump Brexit.... (she did not find that funny either)

 

[peterward]

In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, something major will happen while Trump is president and Putin rules in Russia. Not sure what exactly, but it will result in quite a large war that Europe will have no choice to be involved in. NATO won't choose to support the US as Trump has very different ideals to them. The rest of NATO consists mainly of European countries that'll look out for themselves and their closest allies. Although the EU and NATO are entirely different things, leaving the EU will have an impact on our relationship with other EU countries, especially as a big part of us leaving the EU was so we could stop citizens of EU countries coming to the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-us-president-nightmare

 

[BBassic]

Perhaps if you just tone down your rhetoric and not indulge in such exaggerated nonsense, then others would not tell you where to go. Its the usual argument isn't it from leftie fanatics -the 1% manipulate the rest and no one is bright enough to see it; only visionaries such as yourself.

You realise this is the exact argument Trump used, right?

"The world is broken, you're all being lied to, you're all being treated unfairly and I am the only one who can help you".

 

[El Presidente]

The liberals were too smug, and everyone likes giving such people one in the chops.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-white-house-hillary-clinton-liberals

 

[spring hall convert]

I think you would have had to be living under a rock not to be aware of Clinton's toxicity. She must be literally the only candidate who could have lost against Trump. Benghazi, emails, Whitewater, Clinton Foundation, ties to the Saudis, her legal career, her role in covering up her husband's infidelities, all those dead bodies of people who were poised to speak out against her, being fired from Watergate for being a liar...Trump may be the biggest liar ever to have stood for President but Hillary has to be up there too as just about the most corrupt professional politician.

If Trump wins as expected then Hillary Clinton must take a huge part in that blame.

And the Democratic Party for failing to see which way the wind was blowing. Bernie Sanders would have beaten Trump convincingly.

I'm actually in two minds. I think Trump is a sociopath, there's no conceivable way I could have voted for him and probably would have ended up voting Clinton, whilst pinching my nose hard.

However, if somehow Trump were able to soften the edges of some of his more bizarre policy positions, it might be interesting to see what a President virtually unencumbered by patronage might be able to do.

Let's be completely clear about this though, if Brexit wasn't warning enough then I think last night is the ultimate wake up call for establishment politics. There are huge swathes of both the UK and the USA who feel completely ignored. Whether the decisions they have made are beneficial to their cause is actually irrelevant.

 

[Two Professors]

Well,that's 3 out of my 5 bets winning.
1/Tory win
2/Brexit win
3/Trump win
4/Renzi loss
5/Marine le Pen win

 

[spence]

Well,that's 3 out of my 5 bets winning.
1/Tory win
2/Brexit win
3/Trump win
4/Renzi loss
5/Marine le Pen win

Number 5 no chance. That would Trump everything

 

[Eeyore]

Some states legalised weed last night.

Is that the sweetener ?