US election (merged threads)

[mikeyjh]

What a lot of people have chosen to ignore, both here re Brexit and over the pond, now, is that the world is undergoing a change. For a very long time the ruling elite have got more powerful and less interested in the welfare of the people they represent. They have relied on the passivity of the electorate, who for years have been seduced into thinking micro rather than macro. The ' I'm alright, sod the rest of you attitude ' and as society has been encouraged to become more selfish, more self-orientated, so divisions have grown into chasms. Whole communities feel cut off from the centres of power. They feel a loss of identity and a loss of self-esteem and self-worth. Anger and frustration grow and eventually it boils over into a massive protest vote.
Those that are happy with their lot see no need to change anything. Keep voting in the same elite, Establishment figures and the dinner parties, the holidays, the public education, the private healthcare and the golf and tennis club memberships can just keep rolling on. Clinton was seen as the Establishment figure. Happy to furnish her own nest to the tune of £150m, whilst displaying all the arrogant signs of an untouchable elite. Trump's outspoken honesty, however controversial and devisive it appeared, appealed to more people than the sleazy status quo of Clinton.

There's a lot of truth in what you say but all that's happening hear is that the likes of Trump and Farage are tapping in to that disenfranchisement to further their own interests. It may be a different establishment and elite, but it's still the establishment and still the elite. So I agree with your analysis of how we've ended up at this point but if we truly wanted a break from self interested elitism, why are the likes Corbyn and Sanders not marching their way to power right now? All that's actually happening is the general dissatisfaction with the status quo and the version of capitalism we live is leading, sadly, with a lurch to the right and the persecution of foreigners.

History shows that this does not end well.

 

[mothy]

Groveling appologies required by those outspoken detractors who recklessly nailed their colours to the mast. They include Westminster, the Regions, the Establishment, and all the Media. They haven't learned a thing over recent British elections!

We now have to find a path to a smooth relationship with the new president of our best friends and soul mates. I hope Trump is more conciliatory than you lot?

Scotland.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think you would have had to be living under a rock not to be aware of Clinton's toxicity. She must be literally the only candidate who could have lost against Trump. Benghazi, emails, Whitewater, Clinton Foundation, ties to the Saudis, her legal career, her role in covering up her husband's infidelities, all those dead bodies of people who were poised to speak out against her, being fired from Watergate for being a liar...Trump may be the biggest liar ever to have stood for President but Hillary has to be up there too as just about the most corrupt professional politician.

If Trump wins as expected then Hillary Clinton must take a huge part in that blame.

Exactly. Two equally terrible candidates. America and the world were never going to win.

What a lot of people have chosen to ignore, both here re Brexit and over the pond, now, is that the world is undergoing a change. For a very long time the ruling elite have got more powerful and less interested in the welfare of the people they represent. They have relied on the passivity of the electorate, who for years have been seduced into thinking micro rather than macro. The ' I'm alright, sod the rest of you attitude ' and as society has been encouraged to become more selfish, more self-orientated, so divisions have grown into chasms. Whole communities feel cut off from the centres of power. They feel a loss of identity and a loss of self-esteem and self-worth. Anger and frustration grow and eventually it boils over into a massive protest vote.
Those that are happy with their lot see no need to change anything. Keep voting in the same elite, Establishment figures and the dinner parties, the holidays, the public education, the private healthcare and the golf and tennis club memberships can just keep rolling on. Clinton was seen as the Establishment figure. Happy to furnish her own nest to the tune of £150m, whilst displaying all the arrogant signs of an untouchable elite. Trump's outspoken honesty, however controversial and devisive it appeared, appealed to more people than the sleazy status quo of Clinton.

Then people need to think a bit more. Trump is the establishment. Fred, his father, left an estate of around $250 million and Donald has spent much of his life trying to spunk it away. It's not like he crawled out of an Ohio corn processing plant and set himself up with his last remaining dollar. But then Farage is a former City worker who espouses free trade.

 

[DataPoint]

I guess DT could go on a car parade to downtown Dallas...

Proud of that comment?

 

[soistes]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hugo Rune]

Oh dear. This is so very sad. The American democratic machine seems to have picked the least capable American for president rather than the most capable. What will this nut do to the world?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Agree with a lot of what you say, but struggle a little to believe that Trump and Farage are the men of principle to change this and lead us into a new era of equality

Like them or not, a lot of people have sided with them. A mass of the populace seem to be so determined to shake up the old order, the ruling elite, that any change is acceptable, however risky it may seem. They are good communicators and both appear strong and charasmatic leaders and speak their minds, however much that offends some others. This garners popular appeal and fills people with real hope of change. What a lot of people don't want is a continuation of the present. To them, that is unacceptable and any change, however difficult, is welcome.

 

[Mayonaise]

You're still doing it! Why don't you engage your brain and watch the reality. You may not - but I admire the American people.

Engage our brains? There are realities in North Korea and Russia too but that doesn't mean the leaders of those two countries make for a safer world.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's also a very strange thread title. The people who will lose will likely be anyone affected by any economic downturn caused by Trump carrying out his isolationist threats on trade and immigration. But that *might* not happen. If it doesn't, since we don't live in the US, I doubt we lose much at all. If you're a Mexican wanting to take up the American dream, a woman wanting an abortion or in any way connected to the Clintons then you probably have lost already - or if you were heavily invested in dollars and spent last night asleep.

 

[sir albion]

The world needs big changes and this shows by the voting....

 

[Soulman]

I think you would have had to be living under a rock not to be aware of Clinton's toxicity. She must be literally the only candidate who could have lost against Trump. Benghazi, emails, Whitewater, Clinton Foundation, ties to the Saudis, her legal career, her role in covering up her husband's infidelities, all those dead bodies of people who were poised to speak out against her, being fired from Watergate for being a liar...Trump may be the biggest liar ever to have stood for President but Hillary has to be up there too as just about the most corrupt professional politician.

If Trump wins as expected then Hillary Clinton must take a huge part in that blame.

Thanks. Beans spilled.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The world needs big changes and this shows by the voting....

What would those be then? Have you got a list?

 

[Driver8]

We can't really complain, we voted conservatives and Brexit.

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Speak for yourself!

 

[Bring back Bryan wade!!]

There's a lot of truth in what you say but all that's happening hear is that the likes of Trump and Farage are tapping in to that disenfranchisement to further their own interests. It may be a different establishment and elite, but it's still the establishment and still the elite. So I agree with your analysis of how we've ended up at this point but if we truly wanted a break from self interested elitism, why are the likes Corbyn and Sanders not marching their way to power right now? All that's actually happening is the general dissatisfaction with the status quo and the version of capitalism we live is leading, sadly, with a lurch to the right and the persecution of foreigners.

History shows that this does not end well.

Nail. On. Head.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Exactly. Two equally terrible candidates. America and the world were never going to win.



Then people need to think a bit more. Trump is the establishment. Fred, his father, left an estate of around $250 million and Donald has spent much of his life trying to spunk it away. It's not like he crawled out of an Ohio corn processing plant and set himself up with his last remaining dollar. But then Farage is a former City worker who espouses free trade.

Farage is fiercely anti-establishment. He is well placed to see the corruption and deceit that goes on. He is unpopular because he goes public with it. The ruling elite hate having their feathers ruffled. Anyone who wants change is not the Establishment. The Establishment want the staus quo maintained. Its in their vested interest. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
Trump and Farage both want change.

 

[Soulman]

I was just interested to hear what Soulman had heard, that's all.

Surely you have read up. I stated I "gather", obviously because having an opinion is not enough. I believe Clinton is a nasty piece of work, worse than Trump, seems the American people ( the majority) feel the same.

 

[colinz]

DT seems to have done better than expected in the rust belt States.
Looks like he picked up the 'I'm pissed off vote'.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Speak for yourself!

I didn't. .

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Nail. On. Head.

Agreed

 

[severnside gull]

I smell the festering wounds of Brexit here.

Nah! We'll be okay.
As long as we have the "special relationship"
And as long as Theresa May gives out pussy!